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TR Self belay backup options


phillipivan

29-Jan-2015
4:11:53 PM

You know, ice gets a bad rap in the outer suburbs of Melbourne, however it's not without its merits.

Aids used to scare alot of people, but these days doesn't make the headlines.

Dean Potter made headlines doing crack and freebase, but that guy is a fruit-loop.

What is your favourite colour of skittles?

"A man doesn't go to make M75 cry after climbing, making M75 cry is integral part of the climbing."

Jayford4321

29-Jan-2015
4:23:02 PM

On 29/01/2015 phillipivan wrote:
>You know, ice gets a bad rap in the outer suburbs of Melbourne, however
>it's not without its merits.
>
>Aids used to scare alot of people, but these days doesn't make the headlines.
>
>Dean Potter made headlines doing freebase, but that guy is a fruit-loop.
>
>What is your favourite colour of skittles?
>
>"A man doesn't go to make M75 cry after climbing, making M75 cry is integral
>part of the climbing."

Wtf r skittles?
Ur not in cahoots with rolsen r u?

M75 is likely to get his own back on u someday. How do u feel about him leading the hard pitches with u on a harder Buff nth wall root?


phillipivan

29-Jan-2015
4:27:31 PM

Did you want a sincere answer or something?

Mikey can lead whatever the hell he wants, he's a big boy.

ps. your handle would be funnier if it actually read 'gagnuts'


Miguel75

29-Jan-2015
7:18:46 PM

On 29/01/2015 phillipivan wrote:
>Never mind the buzz, it's considerably less of a pain in the arse.

The grasshopper that hit my windscreen at terminal velocity felt a pain in his bum...


phillipivan

29-Jan-2015
7:24:07 PM

Are you proposing a new definition of terminal velocity Mikey? Something along the lines of 'one's velocity at the moment they expire'.


Miguel75

29-Jan-2015
8:05:07 PM

On 29/01/2015 phillipivan wrote:
SNIP...
>"A man doesn't go to make M75 cry after climbing, making M75 cry is integral
>part of the climbing."

'Tis true, I have a yellow streak at least 2km wide which helps me reach a highly emotive state very easily. I've also been known to cry on easy climbs too...

As an aside, Phil has been instrumental in my climbing of harder grades; Where Angels Fear to Tread in 4 rope stretching pitches with 8(?) pieces of gear and lots of other scary pitches. BigChris, Kiph and Phil are well acquainted with my ability to epic on the easiest of routes;)

maxdacat

16-Feb-2015
7:53:32 AM

What about just using a shunt? I have used this occasionally with a single weighted dynamic rope....no doubt static would work better. I never used backup knots or anything since I figure a shunt is pretty fail-safe.

op - What's "ABCD" anyway?


ajfclark

16-Feb-2015
8:07:04 AM

A safety check system, something like:

A Anchor
B Belay
C Carabiners
D Descent Control
E Edge (or Everything else)

lightfoot

16-Feb-2015
10:02:34 AM

Pretty much
A anchors
B belts and buckles
C connections (crabs etc incl knots)
D devices
E ends edges everything else


shortman

16-Feb-2015
10:31:42 AM

This is my checklist, :)

A
Bit
Confusing.
Do
Everything
For
Guarding
His/Her
Incredible
Joyous
Kooky
Life.
Maybe
Not
Open
Possible
Questionable
Risk.
Start
To
Understand
Vulnerability
Without
Xtra
Yielding
Zealousness.

I have no idea why people would use abc acronyms for things like this.

Aren't all the abc's right in front of you?


sbm

17-Feb-2015
9:19:15 AM

Tried a couple different things yesterday arvo at Bangor.

I reckon to get the microtraxion working really well you need a chest harness with elastic cord in it for constant tension, and ideally instead of going around your neck (not nice) it should go over the shoulders and down to the back of the harness like the petzl Torse.

Without a good chest harness setup I think the grigri is less hassle.

I do like knots on a second rope as a backup. Awkward at times but simple and bomber. Trick is to clip the knots into a sling, so they trail instead of crowding the belay loop.


Snacks

17-Feb-2015
9:39:46 AM

ASAP with a small weight on the end and the occasional knot in the rope is one way to go for easy climbing (1 fall or less per route), so smooth and effortless. Closest experience to soloing whilst still attached to a rope.

Gri Gri or similar if you're working the shit out of a route and want to redo the crux ad infinitum.

White Trash

18-Feb-2015
5:26:45 PM

On 28/01/2015 lightfoot wrote:
>Hi folks, I've been Top rope self belaying for a little while now and wanted
>opinions on back up options. I'm mainly in the you yangs so short climbs
>after work etc so my setup at the moment is as follows:
>
>- Set the anchors, master point/padding etc.
>- Tie two fig 8's in my 10.2 mm dydnamic line with isolation between them
>roughly mid point of rope (usually leave one end longer for knots if
>using them)
>- Drop the mainline line down the climb.
>- The backup line I tie alpine butterflys in every arm span or so then
>drop that down.
>- ABCDE check and rap down main line
>- weight the main line with rope coils/bag/shoes etc
>- Set up my petzl mini traxion on the main line using gridlock biner and
>chest harness to keep it orientated correctly upward
>- Using twin cowstails (Purcell prussiks 7mm cord) with twistlocks on
>the end connected to a mallion rigged the same as my belay loop I begin
>climbing. I use the mallion as it declutters my belay loop.
>- As I reach a knot I clip it with the cowtail and when the next one is
>reached clip that and unclip the previous.
>- Climb and repeat.....
>
>I find this setup works well with one rope as long as the climb is less
>than 25m long (easy in the youies!) The knots are a little time consuming
>and I'd like to use my gri gri 2 on the backup line and wondered what you
>guys think of that as an option. Obviously I'd be pulling slack through
>it every few moves and not expecting it to feed smoothly like the trax.
>This way I'd just reach the top, flick the cam off the trax and rap straight
>down the backup line still on the gri gri and get more laps in.
>
>I know people use microscenders and twin traxions but I'm specifically
>interested in the gri gri option as it means I don't need to buy any more
>gear and allows the quick rap.
>
>I'm doing this mainly to practice aiding without pissing a belayer off!
>I also really like just getting lots of laps in quickly after work.
>
>
>Any thoughts appreciated?? Cheers
>
use 3 daiseys instead of 2


Zarb

18-Feb-2015
7:17:20 PM

I'm actually going to delve in to a little bit of self belay TR myself, I have a Silent Partner lying around that is yearning for some use.

In the instruction manual, it says that you shouldn't work routes on it, and that you should be doing routes well below your ability. Is this just for self belay leading? Surely it's fine to work routes on TR with the Silent Partner?

I was just going to set up a similar system to the OP.
-Weighted 10.5mm for the Silent Partner with a bombproof anchor at the top.
-Second rope running beside the 10.5, with loops at intervals to clip in to for backup.

Should the second rope be on a separate anchor? Or is the same anchor for both ropes fine (as long as it's solid).

lightfoot

18-Feb-2015
9:23:20 PM

use 3 daiseys instead of 2 - white trash

I'm not a fan of daisy chains the Purcell is my goto but I don't see why 3 would be necessary in my original setup. Going
with gri gri on 1 strand with a knot below it when necessary and a mini trax on the other.used it a bunch now and have fallen (weighted the rope) without drama plenty of times. Traversing routes no good unfortunately.


shortman

19-Feb-2015
8:24:30 AM

On 18/02/2015 Zarb wrote:

>In the instruction manual, it says that you shouldn't work routes on it,
>and that you should be doing routes well below your ability. Is this just
>for self belay leading?

Dunno.

>Surely it's fine to work routes on TR with the
>Silent Partner?

Dunno.

>I was just going to set up a similar system to the OP.
>-Weighted 10.5mm for the Silent Partner with a bombproof anchor at the
>top.
>-Second rope running beside the 10.5, with loops at intervals to clip
>in to for backup.
>
>Should the second rope be on a separate anchor? Or is the same anchor
>for both ropes fine (as long as it's solid).

I think you answered your question. I've used the same anchor but with independent slings/cordalette. Other times when maybe my anchor could have been 'more' bombproof, I've set up another. I couldn't imagine TR self belaying on anything I wasn't sure of.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

19-Feb-2015
9:27:21 AM

On 18/02/2015 lightfoot wrote:
>use 3 daiseys instead of 2 - white trash
>
>I'm not a fan of daisy chains the Purcell is my goto but I don't see why
>3 would be necessary in my original setup. Going
> with gri gri on 1 strand with a knot below it when necessary and a mini
>trax on the other.used it a bunch now and have fallen (weighted the rope)
>without drama plenty of times. Traversing routes no good unfortunately.

I think whiteT may be taking the piss out of your thread...
;-)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

19-Feb-2015
9:50:11 AM

On 18/02/2015 Zarb wrote:
>I'm actually going to delve in to a little bit of self belay TR myself,
>I have a Silent Partner lying around that is yearning for some use.
>
>In the instruction manual, it says that you shouldn't work routes on it,
>and that you should be doing routes well below your ability. Is this just
>for self belay leading? Surely it's fine to work routes on TR with the
>Silent Partner?

I have had a Silent Partner device for many years now, and I don't recall its original instructions saying that.
In my opinion the device was specifically designed to enable people to rope-solo lead climb, so by default is more than capable of handling the forces involved in top-roping falls which are small by comparison.

My guess is they may be simply litigeously covering their bases*; as to fall while soloing can involve a bunch of other dangerous factors, particularly if in a remote environment.
(*Much easier for them to simply say "don't".)
>
>I was just going to set up a similar system to the OP.
>-Weighted 10.5mm for the Silent Partner with a bombproof anchor at the
>top.
>-Second rope running beside the 10.5, with loops at intervals to clip
>in to for backup.
>
>Should the second rope be on a separate anchor? Or is the same anchor
>for both ropes fine (as long as it's solid).

Why have a second rope?
If you ever use the Silent Partner as design intended, particularly for multipitch, you will be leading and not have a parallel backup rope...

From the point of view of gaining confidence in your device starting out cautiously as you intend is probably a good thing, but once that confidence is gained you will likely find the extra redundancy to be a faff.

I found the quickest way to gain the necessary confidence in the SP, was to set up a top rope (using a dynamic rope), with SP connected, and climb to varying heights (deliberately incorporating varying amounts of slack rope), and deliberately fall off the route...
☺

kieranl

19-Feb-2015
9:58:17 AM


IdratherbeclimbingM9

19-Feb-2015
10:08:19 AM

On 19/02/2015 kieranl wrote:
>I haven't used this thing, I'm far too wimpy, but Climber Online's review
>said : "It top-rope solos like crap. We were never able to get the right
>feed through the device regardless of how much or how little weight we
>added to the bottom of the fixed line. It consistently hung-up in the
>midst of difficult free moves and was a pain to free it up with one hand."

... that may be why the present instructions advise climbing below your limit?

The device is sensitive to factors such as rope diameter, rope stiffness/suppleness, and icing up in alpine conditions plus presumably muddying up in a caving environment.
I found a bit of diligence to find it's sweet spot of usage conditions paid big dividends, and as far as ever needing to free it up one handed, ... well that is no worse than pulling rope one handed with any other system.

My first thought on reading your quoted comment was that they tied the clove hitch too tightly, as that in my experience is the main cause of hang-up in top-rope usage. Conversely I have found that no matter how loose you tie the clove it will catch falls, ... but you may fall further in the process.

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