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Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

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I may be slapped for asking this


manacubus

1-Apr-2009
11:31:34 AM

Metolius make a full-finger and fingerless belay glove. They cost between $70 and $90 bucks. I know of some world class male sport climbers who use these, so I wouldn't be too worried about stigma. You can get them from a certain QLD based online gear retailer. Bunnings stock a range of composite gloves (synthetic and leather) from Ironclad which would be in the $20-$40 range which would be good as well. I do some pretty hardcore gardening with mine. Floppy gardening gloves will be crap - size them tight.


Cookie

1-Apr-2009
12:56:50 PM

Daww thanks for not lynching me :) looks like i might be making a trip to Bunning’s :P If i can find something nice and thin I’ll be a happy camper indeed. The sports gloves i was looking at (golf, horse riding) were simply too expensive for something i probably won’t be using in a few months.

Sorry Bluey, to clarify, i probably should have written 'Girly-Girl' indicating that i would rather look like a pansy than project a persona of faux machismo and possibly deter myself from future belaying by hurting myself for the safety of my partner. I meant no intention of indicating weakness of any sort.

Also, catching the falls is not my problem, i took a few falls from my partner, and i anchor... my main issue was bringing him down, with the shiny slippery brand new rope i just cant seem to keep the tension i want on the rope without the friction burn, even if i am letting him down at a snails-pace. I'm sure it will come to me with practice :)

As for Belay device, i was using a standard ATC, but have switched to a dual friction, which has made a world of difference... i really don’t like Gri-Gri's, I’m quite comfortable with the ATC, my technique just needs honing :)

patto

1-Apr-2009
1:09:29 PM

On 1/04/2009 Cookie wrote:
>Also, catching the falls is not my problem, i took a few falls from my
>partner, and i anchor... my main issue was bringing him down, with the
>shiny slippery brand new rope i just cant seem to keep the tension i want
>on the rope without the friction burn, even if i am letting him down at
>a snails-pace. I'm sure it will come to me with practice :)
>

If that is your only problem then why do you need a glove?

Why don't you lower the safe and sensible way without using your hand as an energy dissipating device? Lower hand over hand. This is how I would often abseil to avoid unecessary friction on my hands.


wallwombat

1-Apr-2009
1:12:11 PM

On 1/04/2009 Cookie wrote:
>Also, catching the falls is not my problem, i took a few falls from my
>partner, and i anchor... my main issue was bringing him down, with the
>shiny slippery brand new rope i just cant seem to keep the tension i want
>on the rope without the friction burn, even if i am letting him down at
>a snails-pace. I'm sure it will come to me with practice :)

Hold the rope around near your back , as if you were abseiling. That way your hip will take a lot of the friction.

It's good for holding someone who is working a climb too.


Cookie

1-Apr-2009
1:16:54 PM

>Why don't you lower the safe and sensible way without using your hand
>as an energy dissipating device? Lower hand over hand. This is how I
>would often abseil to avoid unecessary friction on my hands.

nobody has ever suggested this method to me! :( i have been told a few differnt ways, like wrap it around to the back of my leg and let that take most of the friction, or using my other hand, holding different angle etc...

i'll try this way next time and see if it is comfortable :D thanks!

devlin66

1-Apr-2009
1:18:48 PM

I do this when lowering with any belay device. For teh Gri-Gri and Sum I just open them right up and use the friction around my back. So much less effort needed for control.


wallwombat

1-Apr-2009
1:19:48 PM

On 1/04/2009 patto wrote:

>Why don't you lower the safe and sensible way without using your hand
>as an energy dissipating device? Lower hand over hand. This is how I
>would often abseil to avoid unecessary friction on my hands.

I don't get ya. What do you mean by ' lower hand over hand'?


bluey

1-Apr-2009
1:25:10 PM

Rather than letting the rope slip through your hand using friction to keep the lowering slow and steady, you hold the rope in one hand, feed it up to the belay device and then put the other hand further along the rope, release the top hand and then feed up the rope with the second hand....and so on and so forth.

patto

1-Apr-2009
1:38:04 PM

Hand over hand is safer and nicer on your hands though it can be a little awkward and not smooth. Also it cannot be used on gri gri and other similar auto locking devices.

I'm surprised people are not aware of this. All beginners should be taught to use two hands for lowering.


bluey

1-Apr-2009
2:03:11 PM

Most people learn in the gym and the gyms can just teach letting the rope feed through because often the rope is so thick and fluffy it won't feed through that fast anyway. If the gym has a gri-gri, you can only use one hand anyway, cos the other hand is holding the little lever thingy to release the rope.


Cookie

1-Apr-2009
2:04:59 PM

>Hand over hand is safer and nicer on your hands though it can be a little
>awkward and not smooth. Also it cannot be used on gri gri and other similar
>auto locking devices.

oh i dont care about smooth, i care about safe. Especially since we are both so new to the leading game.


wallwombat

1-Apr-2009
2:51:04 PM

OK . Now I get it. It does sound a bit awkward.

I think this old dog will stick with what he knows. I haven't managed to drop anyone or burn my hands in two decades, so, as they say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.


ajfclark

1-Apr-2009
3:04:10 PM

On 1/04/2009 patto wrote:
>Hand over hand is safer and nicer on your hands though it can be a little awkward and not smooth.

I find it easier to to be smooth if I move hand to hand rather than hand over hand. So right hand grips while my hands move together then left grips as they move apart (on a right handed belay). Also means I have both hands around the rope the whole time.

drdeviousii

1-Apr-2009
4:17:10 PM

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ee_1177713974

hipster

2-Apr-2009
8:24:20 AM

On 1/04/2009 patto wrote:
>Hand over hand is safer and nicer on your hands though it can be a little
>awkward and not smooth. Also it cannot be used on gri gri and other similar
>auto locking devices.
>
>I'm surprised people are not aware of this. All beginners should be taught
>to use two hands for lowering.

It's not taught because it's not safer. It's not a safe practice and should not be used BY BEGINNERS. With hand over hand if you are lowering with just your left hand on the rope with the rope running down your right hand side you are in no position to lock off effectively should your leader require it. Encouraging beginners to move their hands in a direction closer to the friction device is just bad advice, sorry.
Cookie if you can't stop your leader without slippage you may want to try a thicker lead rope, closer to/or 11mm.


climbau

2-Apr-2009
8:56:49 AM

I agree Hipster.
Fair enough if you want to have both hands on the rope whilst lowering a leader. I don't have a problem
with that as you can still move the rope around with your dominate hand (if that makes sense??).

Happy to also advocate using the glove option or using an extra friction biner for when you have to lower
the leader (however this can be more hassle than it is worth if you don't get the biner/belay device -
friction biner combo right).

patto

2-Apr-2009
12:17:18 PM

On 2/04/2009 hipster wrote:
>On 1/04/2009 patto wrote:
>>Hand over hand is safer and nicer on your hands though it can be a little
>>awkward and not smooth. Also it cannot be used on gri gri and other
>similar
>>auto locking devices.
>>
>>I'm surprised people are not aware of this. All beginners should be
>taught
>>to use two hands for lowering.
>
>It's not taught because it's not safer. It's not a safe practice and should
>not be used BY BEGINNERS. With hand over hand if you are lowering with
>just your left hand on the rope with the rope running down your right hand
>side you are in no position to lock off effectively should your leader
>require it. Encouraging beginners to move their hands in a direction closer
>to the friction device is just bad advice, sorry.
>Cookie if you can't stop your leader without slippage you may want to
>try a thicker lead rope, closer to/or 11mm.

Come again!?

Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say. When I lower I keep my hands well away from the device AND always locked off. In fact doing this slowly you are locked off at every arm length.

Maybe you are assuming that locking off happens only on your right hand-side???? Um, full locking off on most devices happens when there is 180degrees between strands of rope this occurs IN FRONT OF YOU.


climbau

2-Apr-2009
12:51:33 PM

I read your post to mean that:
(assuming belayer is right-handed) when your right hand is locked off and you are wanting to lower a
leader that you maintain grip on the rope with right hand and move it towards the belay device. Then
when your right hand gets to a certain point the left hand comes across and grips the rope (thumb
down) below the the right hand. Next remove the right hand and let the left move towards belay
device(without losing grip of the rope. repeat until leader is on the ground.

I find this a rather bizzare(not to mention awkward) method and certainly would not want my belayer
working on perfecting this method when lowering me. I certainly discouraged beginner climbers from
using this method when guiding.

Of course this is all just my humble opinion.

hipster

2-Apr-2009
2:56:49 PM

>Come again!?
>
>
> Um, full locking off on most devices happens when there is 180degrees
>between strands of rope this occurs IN FRONT OF YOU.

Not sure of your terminology, it's not correct.. The correct position of the rope in the full brake position is through your belay device of choice and the down one side of your body, which ever side you chose, with your braking hand clamped around the rope and positioned towards the middle of your backside. It's not in front of you. You gain extra friction from the rope against your clothing.
Locking off occurs when you apply a hitch or knot around the belay device so as to be able to take your hand off the brake side of the rope, usually in preparation for a rescue..


bluey

2-Apr-2009
3:25:46 PM

Flippin eck.

I agree hand over hand could be awkward, but there is nothing unsafe or awkward about feeding the rope up rather than letting it slip through your hands - the awkwardness can be avoided by just feeding the rope up with the lower hand, then grip with top hand while lower hand goes further along the rope and grips again to feed up the next bit - this way, a hand is always gripping the rope, rather than just relying on friction against the hand as the rope slides through. As for safety, the top hand should not be within "sucking thumbs/fingers into belay device" distance, but then isn't that obvious for any belaying method?

And yes, creating friction around the body would also do the trick.

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