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Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

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Ukrainian cams?


Macciza

3-Dec-2007
6:06:09 PM

On 3/12/2007 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>Yeah how can you give fair dinkum feedback on gear without a fall to base
>it on? :P (tongue in cheek symbol).
>
My point exactly - Everyone should lob onto their gear regularly just to remind yourself . . .

We do it quite often - even on a DogFace though it's more like Russian Roullette there - the piece(s)
either hold and you feel a nice false sense of security or it blows and you realise you are ok . .

The weirdest times are contemplating jumping on dubious gear - the logic being that you must trust it if
you placed it - the reality though is that it is your last hope and you don't want to roll the dice . . .

On standard rock with good gear it should be easy and a great way to settle the mind from fear.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

6-Mar-2008
3:54:30 PM

On 15/08/2007 GravityHound wrote:
>Have a look here.
>
>http://www.bdel.com/scene/beta/qc_kp_archive.php#112906
>
>Thus guys round up
>
>- Climbing is a serious game—buy your equipment from reputable manufacturers.
>Be careful of knock-offs and small-time garage-shop gear. I’m not saying
>that there can’t be good small-shop gear out there—but in most cases these
>companies don’t go through the certification processes and have the quality
>systems in place in order to ensure repeatable manufacturing processes
>and that the gear they are producing consistently meets its intended ratings.
>
>This is his background
>- Kolin Powick (KP) is a Mechanical Engineer hailing from Calgary, Canada.
>He has over 15 years of experience in the enginering field and has been
>Black Diamond's Quality Assurance Manager since 2002. Kolin oversees the
>testing of all of Black Diamond's gear from the prototype phase through
>continual final production random sample testing.
>
>I know who I would listen to. Perhaps he has an alterior motive that is
>people keep buying more expensive certified gear, but perhaps he doesnt
>have an alterior motive..........

Having re-read this thread again I find that to be an interesting link.
Regarding cam test failure he had this to say; ...

Cams
• None of the cams met their rating. In two of the three cases, the failure mode was peculiar and undesirable (cable failure midspan, and axle shear).
• The Titan cam runner broke below rating, we tested with another piece of tied cord, it broke there again, then we tested without any webbing in the system and got the ball swage to fail at above the product rating.
These undesirable failure modes could be a result of age of the product, material selection, previous abuse, or a combination of all three.

dave

6-Mar-2008
9:23:52 PM

On 6/03/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 15/08/2007 GravityHound wrote:
>>Have a look here.
>>
>>http://www.bdel.com/scene/beta/qc_kp_archive.php#112906

Thats a great link- havent seen it before. And not just for the info on ukrainian gear- was interested to read the tests on belay loops. Often see people using home-made backup belay loops, so its interesting to get a few facts!

aquaborealis

11-Nov-2008
1:50:17 AM

Hello Australian friends, I am a newbie here. Never been to Australia, I would sure like to visit sometime.
Anyway, I found this thread by doing a search on "Gear4Rocks" as they are advertising quite a bit on E-
Bay. Here in the US.
I have found this forum very informative, especially the links to Black Diamond, where they did the breaking
tests. Excellent info. I have a rack of about 25 cams (plus nuts and stuff) that I am narrowing down to about
20.
So I was selling my stuff on E-bay and I noticed this company "Gear4Rocks". Man they sure are selling a
lot of stuff on E-bay.
That is great that Ukraine is trying to better itself, I have always felt sorry for Ukraine with all that they have
gone through historically. What Stalin did to them was horrible.
But just looking at the pics on Ebay, the stuff does not look as "clean" as BD, Metolius, or Wildcountry.
Heck , you could always use it for aid climbing, and just place the good stuff where it counts.
I guess I am spoiled, but I want my gear to have good ergonomic design and handling, I don't need any
extra problems when I am free climbing on some thin crack, overhang 100 meters off the ground.

aquaborealis

11-Nov-2008
1:54:33 AM

Oh , yeah, here is the link to the Ukrainian cams on E-bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/rock-climbing-LINKS-CAMS-SET-trad-gear-protection-
aid_W0QQitemZ270296157114QQcmdZViewItemQQptZClimbing_Equipment?
hash=item270296157114&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1421%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7
C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318#ebayphotohosting


Capt_mulch

11-Nov-2008
6:40:04 AM

Wallwombat has found, due to his ownership of a full rack Ukrainian cams, no-one wants to climb trad with him anymore. You might be safer sticking to anything Ukrainian in a bottle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_wine

BTW, I hadn't realised what Stalin did to the Ukraine until a few weeks ago when I went past the Ukrainian cultural centre (read: church) in Canberra. There is large memorial there to the seven million people (so says the memorial) who died in the famine called The Holomodor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor


evanbb

11-Nov-2008
6:47:55 AM

Thanks for the info Mulchy. Not as exciting as I was hoping though. I thought this thread was being resurrected by WOmbat because one of his cams exploded when he slumped onto one.

I've got Czech Republic cams, and I'm slighly embarrassed by them. I keep seeking out partners who have BD cams.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

11-Nov-2008
3:31:14 PM

On 11/11/2008 evanbb wrote:
>I've got Czech Republic cams, and I'm slighly embarrassed by them.

I've got ball races threaded on manilla. What were you embarrassed about again?
;-)


wallwombat

11-Nov-2008
3:59:12 PM

On 11/11/2008 evanbb wrote:
>I thought this thread was being resurrected by WOmbat because one of his cams exploded
>when he slumped onto one.

I don't "slump" onto my cams!


evanbb

11-Nov-2008
4:02:57 PM

On 11/11/2008 wallwombat wrote:

>I don't "slump" onto my cams!

No? But seriously, when you're running it out above one, aren't you thinking "will the Ukraine let me down right now?"

JDB

11-Nov-2008
4:08:57 PM

I've used them on Hammer and Sickle at Declaration Crag.


wallwombat

11-Nov-2008
5:01:57 PM

On 11/11/2008 evanbb wrote:
>No? But seriously, when you're running it out above one, aren't you thinking
>"will the Ukraine let me down right now?"

No. I'm generally thinking about the next placement and not falling off and stuff like that. No point messing my head up, thinking about whether a piece is going to fail or not.

There would have been no point buying them if I wasn't going to trust them.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

11-Nov-2008
5:10:19 PM

>There would have been no point buying them if I wasn't going to trust them.
... said he who made the exploding pvc tube chocks (and bicycle inner tube screamers?)!

BTW I reckon the super heavy duty O rings (approx 1 cm thickness-diameter), that can be found as gaskets for dunny plumbing fittings could be the better option for screamers...


wallwombat

11-Nov-2008
5:22:22 PM

On 11/11/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>... said he who made the exploding pvc tube chocks (and bicycle inner
>tube screamers?)!

You should have seen my aid rack when I was ten.

widewetandslippery

12-Nov-2008
9:06:27 AM

On 11/11/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>BTW I reckon the super heavy duty O rings (approx 1 cm thickness-diameter),
>that can be found as gaskets for dunny plumbing fittings could be the better
>option for screamers...

Thats not such a bad idea. SRT makes a shock absorbing sling much like a screamer but instead of the rows of stitching breaking a rubber ring elongates under a shock load.


ajfclark

12-Nov-2008
9:35:26 AM

On 12/11/2008 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Thats not such a bad idea. SRT makes a shock absorbing sling much like a screamer but instead of the rows of stitching breaking a rubber ring elongates under a shock load.

Just making sure I've got this right in my head. Two biners through both a rubber ring and a sling. The sling will limit the expansion of the ring or catch in case of failure. Right?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

12-Nov-2008
9:41:42 AM

Yep.

However in aid I have experimented with a giant O ring on thin gear, and still found some thin placements to rip.


HM33

12-Nov-2008
9:45:47 AM

On 12/11/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>However in aid I have experimented with a giant O ring on thin gear, and
>still found some thin placements to rip.

How would the O ring help in an aid situation?


ajfclark

12-Nov-2008
9:48:20 AM

On 12/11/2008 Hawkman wrote:
>How would the O ring help in an aid situation?

I guess it'd spread the load on the gear over a longer time as you move or weight the gear. Kind like suspension or dynamic rope but on a smaller scale, right?


shamus

12-Nov-2008
10:08:46 AM

Only problem with this i can think is that while screamers act by limiting the force to a set amount (2kN until its torn all the way?) rubber rings etc all act as springs, and from what i remember (several years since i've done physics, feel free to correct) is that as they stretch, each amount of stretch increases the force that is exerted at each end / to stretch further they need more tension which puts more force on the gear.

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