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What happened to double ropes?

White Trash

15-Jul-2018
1:30:03 AM

On 12-Jul-2018 martym wrote:
>I know I'm getting trolled, but in the spirit of the honest discussion
>Mikl has started I'm going to lay it out clear:
>I'm specifically referring to long abseil in areas, for example Pierces
>Pass in the Blue Mts.
>Option A - use doubles to ab in & climb out.
>Option B - Climb in two parties of 2; ab down on two combined single ropes,
>climb out.
>Option C - Ab down with your climbing rope and another rope/static line
>and... put it in your backpack?
>This is what I'm wondering - as I have seen several groups climbing on
>singles on said Pierces Pass multipitches, haven't thought to ask "how
>did you get down?"
>There is a long walking path I believe, but it seems more likely they
>abseiled. Are they all in groups of 4 or more? Maybe.
>
>And that's it for me. I know when I'm not welcome.

Where’s your endurance martym?
The trolls this site are ok as they mostly take the piss of each other.
Treat it like a long layback or block your view of their posts if they annoy you.


JMK

16-Jul-2018
10:54:30 AM

As Simey said in the U.K. They were still belaying the second directly from your harness.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

I know the positives of escaping the system etc but in 25 years of climbing this has never been an issue. What I do find is that I can take the rope in really tight and assist my second over difficult sections. I have also had some serious dodgy anchors where hanging off the anchor was not an option and a good braced position was effectively the belay. This has been true for both multi pitch trad and alpine (risk is often higher in alpine where anchors are usually of a lower quality). But I would belay of my harness even on sport multis because I am always in a solid position not going to be pulled off sideways etc. I also don't like the guide mode on steep stuff because of the risks attached with releasing. So what do others think?

mikllaw

16-Jul-2018
2:09:10 PM

On 16-Jul-2018 JMK wrote:
>As Simey said in the U.K. They were still belaying the second directly
>from your harness.
>
>What are peoples thoughts on this?

I seen a few dropped seconds with unexpected falls belaying like this. With 1 second I use guide mode occasionally or a normal lead belay with a high redirect (easier to give tension and no swap over time if they lead through). With 2 seconds simulclimbing I use guide mode.

gfdonc

16-Jul-2018
4:30:25 PM

I don't like using guide mode and retired my compatible belay device years ago in favour of something smaller and lighter.
My 'gold standard' is to belay off a pulley screwgate from the anchor then into my harness. As Mikl points out that makes hauling possible (I've managed to winch someone on an overhanging wall below me) as well as making it possible to escape the belay.
If there isn't a convenient anchor or the belay situation doesn't allow it (top-out on flat surface for example) I'll belay direct from the harness.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

16-Jul-2018
4:40:06 PM

On 16-Jul-2018 mikllaw wrote:
>On 16-Jul-2018 JMK wrote:
>>As Simey said in the U.K. They were still belaying the second directly
>>from your harness.
>>
>>What are peoples thoughts on this?
>
>I seen a few dropped seconds with unexpected falls belaying like this.
(Snip)

?
... and the difference between that and other dropped seconds while using different techniques is?
Belayer being vigilant rates highly in my experience, no matter the technique!


ajfclark

16-Jul-2018
4:55:17 PM

On 16-Jul-2018 gfdonc wrote:
>My 'gold standard' is to belay off a pulley screwgate from the anchor then into my harness. As Mikl points out that makes hauling possible (I've managed to winch someone on an overhanging wall below me) as well as making it possible to escape the belay.

How do you escape that?

gfdonc

16-Jul-2018
5:54:02 PM

Attach a prussic to the downward-leading rope strand. Clip it to the anchor. Done.


Andrew_M

16-Jul-2018
7:45:32 PM

On 16-Jul-2018 gfdonc wrote:
>I don't like using guide mode and retired my compatible belay device years
>ago in favour of something smaller and lighter.
>My 'gold standard' is to belay off a pulley screwgate from the anchor
>then into my harness. As Mikl points out that makes hauling possible (I've
>managed to winch someone on an overhanging wall below me)

But hauling in guide mode is dead easy too. Put a prusik and biner on the climber strand and you've got a z pulley with progress capture...all within 30 seconds tops.


ajfclark

16-Jul-2018
8:42:07 PM

On 16-Jul-2018 Andrew_M wrote:
>But hauling in guide mode is dead easy too. Put a prusik and biner on the climber strand and you've got a z pulley with progress capture...all within 30 seconds tops.

Hauling through guide mode is relatively difficult, especially as the rope(s) approach 10mm.


deadbudgy

17-Jul-2018
6:28:48 PM

On 16-Jul-2018 ajfclark wrote:
>On 16-Jul-2018 Andrew_M wrote:
>>But hauling in guide mode is dead easy too. Put a prusik and biner on
>the climber strand and you've got a z pulley with progress capture...all
>within 30 seconds tops.
>
>Hauling through guide mode is relatively difficult, especially as the
>rope(s) approach 10mm.

This is highly dependant on the combination of device and karabiner. Once you find a combo that works well together it is super convenient and fast to go from belaying to hauling

gfdonc

17-Jul-2018
10:31:01 PM

I'm with Andrew. I'd suggest unless you're going around a pulley, friction in the system will prevent you hauling anyone of similar body weight.

I had a 10-15kg advantage (sadly) and could just barely haul my partner (who'd fallen off a steep wall below me and couldn't touch rock) by using a Ropeman as a lockoff device around a pulley biner, with a prussic and foot-sling on the downward strand, and pulling upwards on the upward strand.

Usual "YMMV" disclaimer.


ajfclark

18-Jul-2018
1:11:42 AM

On 17-Jul-2018 deadbudgy wrote:
>On 16-Jul-2018 ajfclark wrote:
>>Hauling through guide mode is relatively difficult, especially as the rope(s) approach 10mm.
>
>This is highly dependant on the combination of device and karabiner. Once you find a combo that works well together it is super convenient and fast to go from belaying to hauling

The key word in there was relatively. I work as a guide. I spend an above average amount of time hauling. I don't do it with a belay device in guide mode if I have a choice. A grigri is far, far easier, especially with fat ropes - even when the dead weight on the other end is is a kid half my weight.


deadbudgy

18-Jul-2018
8:10:55 PM

On 18-Jul-2018 ajfclark wrote:
>On 17-Jul-2018 deadbudgy wrote:
>>On 16-Jul-2018 ajfclark wrote:
>>>Hauling through guide mode is relatively difficult, especially as the
>rope(s) approach 10mm.
>>
>>This is highly dependant on the combination of device and karabiner.
>Once you find a combo that works well together it is super convenient and
>fast to go from belaying to hauling
>
>The key word in there was relatively. I work as a guide. I spend an above
>average amount of time hauling. I don't do it with a belay device in guide
>mode if I have a choice. A grigri is far, far easier, especially with fat
>ropes - even when the dead weight on the other end is is a kid half my
>weight.

Fair enough. I'm not questioning your experience. Its just an observation. Completely agree that the gri gri is easier but the thread is about double ropes...


ajfclark

18-Jul-2018
8:47:27 PM

True, but a blanket statement that "hauling in guide mode is dead easy too." is misleading. It's dead easy to setup, but it's more work than other configurations. Depending on the distance needed to be hauled, even on doubles, I might work out a way to remove the guide device from the system.

ben wiessner

20-Jul-2018
12:39:24 AM

On 26-Jun-2018 kieranl wrote:
>A problem is that a lot of climbers these days aren't used to climbing
>on doubles and that's something I have to consider if I'm climbing with
>a new partner.

I find it a pain to manage double ropes when I'm belaying someone on a hard route, especially if they need fast clips. Maybe I'm not the only one though?

http://youtu.be/pUUyI39FOf4?t=3m49s

I presume it's the film makers taking the piss a little.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

20-Jul-2018
2:15:17 AM

On 20-Jul-2018 ben wiessner wrote:
>I presume it's the film makers taking the piss a little.

I don’t think so, because immediately before that footage of her father/belayer letting go of the yellow rope, her last gear on the orange strand falls out and she being a bit disconcerted by that says to belayer;
“OK, really watch me on yellow!“

I reckon he fluffed it badly!!


ajfclark

20-Jul-2018
2:29:25 AM

That's almost as good as the kid belaying Noddy with doubles...

Olbert

20-Jul-2018
4:35:41 AM

On 20-Jul-2018 ajfclark wrote:
>That's almost as good as the kid belaying Noddy with doubles...

I'm not even sure what's going on there. Was that from back roads?


Duang Daunk

20-Jul-2018
5:55:10 AM

On 20-Jul-2018 Olbert wrote:
>I'm not even sure what's going on there.

The little deviant is trying to pull the leader off, or at least give him a very tight rope during the crux move!
Bro Olly, it’s obvious that you don’t have a teenager bro/sis.
Never piss them off in the morning and climb with them in the arvo.

Bro KB; KSR is almost there, you paying attention?


ajfclark

20-Jul-2018
10:36:38 PM

On 20-Jul-2018 Olbert wrote:
>On 20-Jul-2018 ajfclark wrote:
>>That's almost as good as the kid belaying Noddy with doubles...
>I'm not even sure what's going on there. Was that from back roads?
Yes.

There are 60 messages in this topic.