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Hex's Vs Cams Vs Stoppers

Wendy

10-Nov-2011
8:08:12 AM

On 9/11/2011 Steve Peckman wrote:
>DMM Offsets are the Best by far in my opinion. I have 2x full sets of them
>and have retired my BD nuts and DMM wall nuts to supplement the offsets
>if they are needed.

I've been ignoring this topic because it's been done to death - I'm surprised M9 hasn't put up half a dozen links to other threads ....

But now I can't resist ...

What planet are you on? What weird rock type have you found that justifies offsets as a main set of nuts? Offsets need a very particular shape of crack to sit in. There's a reason all the other nuts are a vaguely similar shape, and that's because that shape fits in most cracks best. I almost never see a placement that takes an offset better than a bog standard rock. They are a pain to get out most of the time, and cost way more then other nuts. Do you have a set of offset friends as your main set as well? I pulled a 1.5-2 offset friend out of Mantis the other week. Firstly, I was flabergasted that anyone would carry that mank, let alone think they would need it on Mantis, and then, as it came out in about 2 seconds, I figured that they had also decided it was a manky piece of gear and they may as well abandon it. Or maybe some poor noob took some random advice on chockstone about what sort of gear they should get and ended up with a rack of weirdness they struggled to place and clean. Ballnuts anyone? Anticams?

And bugger off the tricams as well, Jc. These things are all funky, specialist bits of gear. You don't need them. You may decided you quite like them further down the track after playing with someone elses (there no accounting for taste, after all), but they are not a bog standard rack good for learning on and they are certainly not necessary.

Of course, I think the RPs can wait until you're leading about 20 as well, but that goes without saying. You wont miss them on Araps grade 10s. If prioritising because you can't afford stuff matters, ignore the rps for a while.


Doug

10-Nov-2011
10:57:31 PM

On 6/11/2011 dan_b wrote:
>Hey, sorry to hijack this thread but I am in a similar position. Making
>the transition from sport to trad in Vic, so I will be climbing at Araps/Grampians.
>So far I have bought a set of rocks 1-11. I have used cams on previous
>leads/cleaned seconds so feel more comfortable placing cams than hexes.

Which is a very good reason to buy a few hexes, such as sizes 5 - 8 in Black Diamond or the equivalent in something else. (When BD first came out with the "new" anodised hexes I upgraded from my old ones, cut off the wire and threaded them with the super strong dyneema/kevlar cord). You will learn real nut craft if you challenge yourself to work at placing a passive piece rather than a cam. Each hex has (at least) three possible profiles and you will eventually become good at reading the size you need and placing solid gear.

>I am looking to expand. As a very general rule, do people think doubling
>on rocks size 1-6

Yes, or the equivalent in Wallnuts. Or you might want to buy a set of each to see which work best for you.

and getting C4s sizes .5-3 would be a reasonable place
>to start? ie is small-medium size gear of more use in Vic (it has been
>in my limited trad experience).

The sizes you are talking about is a good place to start if that's what you need to do, but I'd suggest saving your cash for a little while. If you're just starting to lead focus on using a more compact rack and learn to place good gear on safe, well-protected routes. Don't worry too much about the grade of the route at this stage but concentrate on feeling comfortable in hanging around long enough to look at the features of the rock and finding the right gear. This might sound a bit retro and uncool but your skills at placing gear will advance more rapidly and surely if that's what you are on about. You will also avoid overcamming and losing an expensive Camalot, Dragon or Friend because your second couldn't get it out.
Whatever you decide, good luck and enjoy the experience of becoming more intimate with the trad climbing game.
Cheers and good luck!
Doug


Eduardo Slabofvic

11-Nov-2011
8:50:47 AM

On 10/11/2011 Doug Bruce wrote:
> and learn
>to place good gear on safe, well-protected routes. Don't worry too much
>about the grade of the route at this stage but concentrate on feeling comfortable
>in hanging around long enough to look at the features of the rock and finding
>the right gear. This might sound a bit retro and uncool but your skills
>at placing gear will advance more rapidly and surely if that's what you
>are on about.

Hear hear

Also practice down climbing, and when hanging around at the base of a route resting or whatever, grab a piece of gear and wander around seeing how many placements you can get for it. You want to get to the place where you look at a slot and know which bit goes in first time

anthonycuskelly

11-Nov-2011
9:40:31 AM

You've got a set of wires... get another one, and a few big hexes. Cams can wait, if you're still at the point of asking this question. Just because you're more comfortable placing cams doesn't mean they're better.

I'm going to go halfway on the Offsets thing: I tend to carry a set, because they work awesomely when other things don't, but 80-90% of the time a normal wire works better. I definitely wouldn't carry them as my main set, or send a beginner up with them.

Jayford4321

11-Nov-2011
2:49:13 PM

Hey doug how did your ground fall happen ? was it gear related ?


wallwombat

11-Nov-2011
3:30:47 PM

On 4/11/2011 jcrunk wrote:
>...I climb mostly at Nowra NSW, Mt Keira (Wollongong) NSW & hopefully!! the Blue Mountains...
>which is sandstone

These places are not Arapiles or the Gramps but the majority of the advice the OP has received is geared towards these two area.

Nowra? Trad? Nup

Mt Kiera? Trad? Not really

Blue Mountains? Trad? Besides Mt Piddo there isn't a lot of good trad climbs in the mountains, certainly not for the begining trad leader. Mt Boyce maybe and perhaps The Wolgan (which isn't really the Blueys)

Point Perp is a great trad/mixed area but i wouldn't advise a beginner trad leader to head down there and it's not a place to go if you only have a sparse trad rack - doubles are pretty handy and sometimes triples. So is a nappy.

A set of nuts and some mid sized cams should do you OK at Piddo. Maybe a couple of larger sized hexes.

Don't waste your hard earned on RPs and other more esoteric crap yet. Wait until you head down to Victoria.

Steve Peckman

11-Nov-2011
3:40:45 PM

My Main crags are Mt Maroon and Frog. Offsets are so versatile they work well in tons of placements that will take a normal wire or an offset specific placement.


wombly

11-Nov-2011
4:35:08 PM

I second wallwombat's advice.

When tradding in the blueys I'll rarely take more than a single set of wires. And if I do, I'll bias the collection toward the mid or larger nuts - a #1 or 2 wallnut or rock in most blueys cheese is far from bomber. I'm a fan of a single set of cams (from 0.5 friend to camalot 3) supplemented with hexes, but will occasionally double the finger and hand sized cams and ditch the cowbells if my 'enlightened' partners wish it.

Double sets of wires, including micros and RP's when I venture onto some decent stone though...


Doug

11-Nov-2011
4:35:24 PM

On 11/11/2011 jammin wrote:
>Hey doug how did your ground fall happen ? was it gear related ?

Hi James (do I know you?). I guess word has got around. Not quite a ground fall (a bomber 9 or 10 Wallnut pulled me up, upside down, about a metre from the deck), and not exactly gear related. I'd threaded a bit of rock that I'd describe as being most like the handle on an iron. I was down-climbing a slab (nice little route but not very well protected), missed a foothold, landed on a ledge, caught my foot in the rope went over backwards and the "thread" broke away causing me to go another 4 metres or so and land on my head. Given the fall I took I was pretty lucky not to come out of it worse off, and absolutely rapt that the one good bit of gear I had in held.

The dotted yellow line in the image below shows where the rock broke away ...

One Day Hero

13-Nov-2011
10:29:49 PM

On 11/11/2011 wallwombat wrote:
>
>These places are not Arapiles or the Gramps but the majority of the advice
>the OP has received is geared towards these two area.

What is it with Victorians and their stupid blocked up ears? Listen to the question people!

Wallwombat has it pretty sorted, except I'd add the following bits
>
>Nowra? Trad? Nup
>
>Mt Kiera? Trad? Not really

Just don't go to Kiera at all, its really shit!
>
>Blue Mountains? Trad? Besides Mt Piddo there isn't a lot of good trad
>climbs in the mountains, certainly not for the begining trad leader. Mt
>Boyce maybe and perhaps The Wolgan (which isn't really the Blueys)

There's some really good trad and mixed stuff at Cosmic.....there's also a great 17 at Ikara :D
>
>Point Perp is a great trad/mixed area but i wouldn't advise a beginner
>trad leader to head down there and it's not a place to go if you only have
>a sparse trad rack - doubles are pretty handy and sometimes triples. So
>is a nappy.

Point Perp has funny gear, its good but not obvious. I was down there today after not having been in ages and was having trouble getting gear which made me happy. I would suggest learning to place gear pretty good at piddo before trying it on at the point.
>
>A set of nuts and some mid sized cams should do you OK at Piddo. Maybe
>a couple of larger sized hexes.

Really? Whats a mid-sized cam? Flake crack would be bloody exciting on that rack, so would Psychopath! Blueys rack includes double cams from #1.5-#3 friend, and probably at least one each of #3.5 and #4 depending on the route. If you've done 'em a thousand times, you only need to take what you know you need.
>
>Don't waste your hard earned on RPs and other more esoteric crap yet.
>Wait until you head down to Victoria.
>
Yup, if you want to climb Blueys and The Point, don't waste your cash on hexs and rp's. Get double cams as soon as you can afford them.


wallwombat

14-Nov-2011
11:29:28 PM

Mid sized cams?

I don't know. First time I did Flake Crack and Psychopath the biggest cam I had was a 4 Friend. I suppose that's not mid size, so I stand corrected.

ODH, you know what I was on about.

There are 31 messages in this topic.