Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop

Black Diamond: SET of 8 "C4" Cams and 8 matching wire gates. Sizes .3 .4 .5 .75 1 2 3 & 4 and 8 anodised "neutrino" - wire gate karabiners. NB Comes with a FREE carry bag.  $775.00
20% Off

Chockstone Photography Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Southwest You Yangs Nightfall Pinnacles Car Park (General) [ You Yangs Guide | Images ] 

Author
Heart of Darkness at the YouYangs

Goshen
17-Dec-2015
1:49:46 PM
Heart of Darkness, 24.

Is a great line (with a great name) on the front of the Nightfall pinnacle at the You Yangs. I'm not expecting anyone to know much about this climb; but you never know.

It's a Kevin Lindorff Route '85. I've been out to try it twice now, and absent any photos, let me describe it to you.

Forgetting for a moment where the bolt is, it takes the RH arete of the block, where hard moves lead into a great tenuous L leading groove, finishing up the L arete. Grade 24, at least.

When we start talking about gear, it gets tricky. There is an old rusty carrot (deformed, as you can't get bolt plate on it) about 1/3 the way up the climb - well before you actually get into the groove. It's impossible and unsafe to clip the bolt on route the way the climb is described, which leads me to think it was preclipped for the first ascent, and you climb in above the bolt. Rather cool and technical moves lead into the groove, which is followed with difficulty. You can pre-place some very marginal #2 RP's in this groove (forget about placing them on lead), and then you climb a nice arete to the top, facing a groundfall if they fail (as they probably would; the gear is SHIT).

In typical YY fashion, the bolt is placed high enough to protect the crux, stop you hitting the deck (maybe) while doing desperate grade 23 slabbing towards the top of the groove, and absolutely worthless at the top.

I really wanted to do this climb in it's original style - even happy to work on toprope, preplace all the shitty RP's etc; but not even sure I can bring myself to do that... It's just unsafe, and I've done a fair bit of thin runout climbing.

So if any climb warranted a retrobolt; this would be it. 2 bolts would be enough to protect this climb adequately, and enable the climb to be lead ground-up, with plenty of spice above and between bolts.

Anyone got an opinion on this? I'm happy to cop the line that it should be left for those with enough gumption; but I doubt it's had a second ascent, maybe one.

Also, I should mention that it's possible that I've misread the description and climb does start from the base of the outcrop. Maybe it could be possible to do that via a V7 boulder problem off the top of a cairn, and would be a good direct way to do the climb; but it would need to be bumped to 26 at least, even with an extra bolt or two.

Fire away!

shortman
17-Dec-2015
2:00:32 PM
Pretty sure Mr Law has got up it?? Can't remember where I heard that though....

IdratherbeclimbingM9
17-Dec-2015
2:32:11 PM
On 17/12/2015 Goshen wrote:
>Heart of Darkness, 24.
>
>Is a great line (with a great name) on the front of the Nightfall pinnacle
>at the You Yangs. I'm not expecting anyone to know much about this climb;
>but you never know.
>
>It's a Kevin Lindorff Route '85. I've been out to try it twice now, and
>absent any photos, let me describe it to you.
>
>Forgetting for a moment where the bolt is, it takes the RH arete of the
>block, where hard moves lead into a great tenuous L leading groove, finishing
>up the L arete. Grade 24, at least.
>
>When we start talking about gear, it gets tricky. There is an old rusty
>carrot (deformed, as you can't get bolt plate on it) about 1/3 the way
>up the climb - well before you actually get into the groove. It's impossible
>and unsafe to clip the bolt on route the way the climb is described, which
>leads me to think it was preclipped for the first ascent, and you climb
>in above the bolt. Rather cool and technical moves lead into the groove,
>which is followed with difficulty. You can pre-place some very marginal
>#2 RP's in this groove (forget about placing them on lead), and then you
>climb a nice arete to the top, facing a groundfall if they fail (as they
>probably would; the gear is SHIT).
>
>In typical YY fashion, the bolt is placed high enough to protect the crux,
>stop you hitting the deck (maybe) while doing desperate grade 23 slabbing
>towards the top of the groove, and absolutely worthless at the top.
>
>I really wanted to do this climb in it's original style - even happy to
>work on toprope, preplace all the shitty RP's etc; but not even sure I
>can bring myself to do that... It's just unsafe, and I've done a fair
>bit of thin runout climbing.
>
>So if any climb warranted a retrobolt; this would be it. 2 bolts would
>be enough to protect this climb adequately, and enable the climb to be
>lead ground-up, with plenty of spice above and between bolts.
>
>Anyone got an opinion on this? I'm happy to cop the line that it should
>be left for those with enough gumption; but I doubt it's had a second ascent,
>maybe one.
>
>Also, I should mention that it's possible that I've misread the description
>and climb does start from the base of the outcrop. Maybe it could be possible
>to do that via a V7 boulder problem off the top of a cairn, and would be
>a good direct way to do the climb; but it would need to be bumped to 26
>at least, even with an extra bolt or two.
>
>Fire away!

Re what I have marked out above in your post.
I know nothing about the YouYangs, but I do know about Kevin's Mt Buffalo routes...
He has a well deserved reputation for bold leads, particularly from that era, so what you describe doesn't surprise me at all.
Further, it wouldn't surprise me either to find out that it was led ground up, from the base, and bolts placed while on lead!!
8-)

I may be wrong, but I gather that he is now these days (more)-amenable to the kind of retro-ing that you describe, ie plenty of spice above and between bolts, provided that you contact him first and obtain his agreement...


harold
17-Dec-2015
2:54:19 PM
That's a pretty good description Goshen - and the reason I have been avoiding going out there with you:) I really didn't want to be asked to belay if you were crazy enough to do it! I agree 2 bolts would make it spicy but not suicidle ( I would prefer 3 myself because I'm soft). Awesome line and I'm happy to just toprope it if the hardmen out there insist on retaining the original protection, but would be great as a runout sport slab.

I toproped the direct start version because I didn't know where it started and while getting off the ground is impossible I thought with a decent rock cairn it would go with difficulty as you said. I think there is a mank bolt there from Mikls original attempt.

nmonteith
17-Dec-2015
3:16:32 PM
Goshen, you are a strong and bold climber. If you think it deserves a few extra bolts it probably needs lots of extra bolts! I very much doubt Kevin would be fussed about a few extra bolts. Just do it.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
17-Dec-2015
3:30:18 PM
On 17/12/2015 nmonteith wrote:
>Goshen, you are a strong and bold climber. If you think it deserves a few
>extra bolts it probably needs lots of extra bolts! I very much doubt Kevin
>would be fussed about a few extra bolts. Just do it.

?
From my knowledge (minimal as it is) of Kevin, I really doubt that he wouldn't give his permission to turn it into a 'sane' climb, particularly with the additional information that you provide; but pre-empting having consultation with him is not a good way to go in my opinion.
It's not as if he isn't around to contact easily...

harold
17-Dec-2015
3:38:29 PM
from chockstone interview with Kevin - http://www.chockstone.org/interviews/klindorff.htm

Q: Plucking another "Lindorff Classic" out of the air I'll ask about Heart Of Darkness (24) at Nightfall Pinnacles in the You Yangs which goes up the impossible looking back of the Pinnacle, basically a featureless slab with a single bolt in 20 metres. I've seen this thing. The guide gives it three stars not for popularity (I doubt anyone would have the courage to repeat it) but for the sheer audacity of the first ascent. What possessed you to all but solo this thing?

It hadn't been done - that was a red rag to a bull (I've often said that if I couldn't do new routes I'd give up climbing and do something else). Anyway, it looked O.K from below. I figured I could do it O.K. So I did.
MichaelOR
17-Dec-2015
8:15:05 PM
Hi Goshen,
I've emailed Kevin and let him know about this thread and the rebolting question.
I'm sure that he won't object to your rebolting proposal, it sounds sensible. His bolting of new routes over recent years is far more 'normal', particularly since he got a Bosch for his birthday a little while back!
But since he's still climbing, and hard, it is best to check with him. It may take a little while for a reply as the school year has already finished for him.
Michael

Goshen
17-Dec-2015
9:13:59 PM
Thanks for the replies...and interesting find Harold, one impressive effort amongst many. I'm in no hurry, and will try to get in touch (could anyone PM me his contact details?).

IdratherbeclimbingM9
17-Dec-2015
9:20:35 PM
On 17/12/2015 Goshen wrote:
>Thanks for the replies...and interesting find Harold, one impressive effort
>amongst many. I'm in no hurry, and will try to get in touch (could anyone
>PM me his contact details?).

Please let this thread know what the outcome turns out to be, if KL doesn't himself.

There are 10 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Landscape Photos Australia

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | High Country Mountain Huts | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints