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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 25
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Moonarie
clairemc
14-Jul-2015
3:40:30 AM
I'm looking at heading to Moonarie, for my first time in September. I have the the 2000 edition of the Moonarie guide book, but was just wondering if there was any more up to date information on the place.

Apart from being closer to the crag, what are the pros and cons of staying up at top camp, versus down by the road? It'll decide me on whether to bring a small mountain tent, or a big palatial one :)

Superstu
14-Jul-2015
8:44:36 AM
Maybe just bivvy a night or two up at top camp? If the weather is poop enough you want a tent you'd probably want to be down at the campground anyway.
prb
14-Jul-2015
11:10:11 AM
September is OK at Moonarie, the days could be anything from cold to warm, the nights cold to reasonable. Rainfall is not predictable.

Chockstone's own robb is hard at work on a new book but I doubt it will arrive by September. A bunch of routes from 2000-2014 is found here:

http://climbingclubsouthaustralia.asn.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Moonarie-New-Route-Update-may2014.pdf

There's no 'campground' as such, Bottom Camp is on a property and camping climbers are tolerated. It's a fragile environment among callitris and it's really, really important to bring your own firewood. The only facility at Moonarie is a water tank near Top Camp. Although it's technically illegal, people camp occasionally up at the cliffs. Many don't bother with a tent but use a sleeping bag +/- bivvy bag and find an overhang along the bottom of Checkers Wall. A comfy tent for Bottom Camp and a bag for up top could be the best of both worlds.

As for pros and cons, the sunrises are better up top and you save energy by avoiding the walk up. If you enjoy interacting with humans there'll probably be more of those down the hill. I climb there quite a bit and usually stay at Bottom Camp. The walk is not unpleasant (especially going down), it gets you fit and becomes part of the Moonarie pattern of life.
Wendy
15-Jul-2015
11:57:27 AM
The old guidebook will be completely fine for all the classic stuff at Moonarie. THe update is useful for locating some rap anchors that have gone in since the guide though. For a first visit, you probably wouldn't bother with any of the new routes, you'd be too busy with the old ones which are generally fantastic.

I think camping up top is problematic. There's not a lot of space, the water supply is very limited and it's nice to leave it for drinking water rather than waste it on washing, cooking etc, the places to toilet are also limited - it's very rocky and scrubby. It's also a massive effort to carry all your camping gear, food and climbing gear up there, whereas the walk up each day is fine after day one, when you stash all the climbing gear at top camp and romp up and down with a day pack each day. Takes less than 30min if you are fit and not carrying much. I always stay down the bottom.

There are absolutely no facilities at either camp, BYO everything and be responsible about toileting and rubbish. I've always managed to get a 2wd into the camp ground, but it can be a bit hairy. You can top up on water, get showers and a small range of food plus cold beer at Wilpena Pound which is 10m or so up the road. You can also camp there if you want - it's surprisingly quiet outside of school hols. So is the crag - we've had it to ourselves the past few times i've been. If you are antisocial like me, avoid school/uni hols and long weekends and you'll have a good chance of having it to yourselves too.
ben wiessner
15-Jul-2015
6:14:33 PM
I've just returned from a week at Moonarie. It was going to be 2 weeks but rain arrived...

I highly recommend Top Camp. I think it's lovely, and am happy to leave walking up hills to aspiring alpinists (admittedly I don't think Wendy fits into this category). It's true that it's a challenge to lug all your stuff up the hill, but I'd elect one trip of suffering rather than a rather arduous daily hike.

I will add that it was quite horrible indeed when the rain arrived and we were staying at Top Camp, because there is no space there to set up a tent, so the rain did inevitably seep under our tarpaulins, and into our sleeping bags, etc. But overall, the positives of staying at Top Camp outweighed the negatives.

We fit about 7 people at top camp comfortably, so I don't think space is an issue.

The water supply didn't appear to be very limited, but I'm no hydrologist. We used water consistently for cooking and cleaning, and I don't think that's a waste (sorry Wendy and to anyone else who disagrees. If you get up there and there's insufficient supplies I'll buy you a glass of water next time we catch up).

I found this online guide helpful http://www.thecrag.com/climbing/australia/moonarie . However I feel that the authors of both the online guide and the printed guide suffer from a terrible affliction whereby crappy routes get starred (thankfully this doesn't seem to have occurred in the update indicated in prb's post - great!). When there are impeccable 3 star lines at the crag (eg Downwind of Angels), vastly inferior routes (eg Casablanca, Hanging Fred Bonnet) should not be given the same status IMO. Of course stars are always going to be subjective I suppose...

Have a great trip :)
Wendy
17-Jul-2015
12:22:47 PM
Ben, you are a very naughty boy and I shall have to spank you when I get home. 7 people at top camp is bad, if everyone did it, the impact on the area would be immense. And you don't need to be a hydrologist - have a look at the catchment - basically that gully - the rainfall in the area - makes Nati look wet - and the size of the tank. The only thing possibly excusing using all that water is that not many people will be silly enough to go to Moonarie in the middle of winter and it might get enough rain by spring to refill. Maybe the only reason you think it is a daily arduous hike is because you carry all your stuff up and haven't done it as a daily jaunt with nothing but lunch and water. Besides, camping at the bottom, i get to have a big tent, comfy mattress, quilts, picnic table, eski with cold beer, rest day access to showers, swimming and more cold beer.

I agree Hanging Fred Bonnet is a nonsense route. As is the other traverse on that wall. I liked Casablanca though.

I'll take champagne instead of water next time we catch up. Or a belay on stinky project :)

Robb
17-Jul-2015
8:59:50 PM
Hi all. I can confirm that the new moon guide is progressing.
More than happy to take comments and suggestions on route description changes and stars. I have changed many already based on comments but happy to take more. Post on this thread. Pm me or email to robmbaker1976 (at )gmail .com

Cheers rob
stugang
18-Jul-2015
6:34:18 PM
Bivvying at top camp is fine - but if you pitch a tent up there you should be shot.

As long as you're not wasteful with the water in the tank staying up there is fine and quite an experience. The water hysteria is a beat up.
ben wiessner
18-Jul-2015
9:22:00 PM
On 18/07/2015 Jayford4321 wrote:

>The water hysteria is a beat up.

It's just Wendy trolling again :-P
Jayford4321
19-Jul-2015
9:15:01 PM
On 17/07/2015 Wendy wrote:
>Ben, you are a very naughty boy and I shall have to spank you when I get home.
>
>I'll take champagne instead of water next time we catch up. Or a belay on stinky project :)

Are you fussy about who belays, or how intoxicated they are?


On 18/07/2015 ben wiessner wrote:
>>On 18/07/2015 Jayford4321 wrote:
>>The water hysteria is a beat up.
>
>It's just Wendy trolling again :-P

You are lookin forward to a spanking? Where does the queue start?
Rock Winkle
20-Jul-2015
7:56:33 PM
Hey Robb, any hints when the new guide will be published?

And on a side topic, does anyone have any specific recommendations for required gear/pro to climb at Moonarie?
stugang
20-Jul-2015
9:30:52 PM
All in all a standard rack will suffice which for me is
- Rps
-1.5 sets of wires (the .5 comes from doubling the smaller sizes where your small cams won't fit)
-1 set small cams (I like tcu's no one else does)
-1 set cams only going big if you really know you'll need it (there should be a bit of overlap between your small large cams and your large small cams)

Enough draws and slings commensurate with the regularity with which you place pro on long pitches (minimal short draws as long and floppy wins hands down over short and hard at the moon).

A few slings and other shit that if you need to be told you shouldn't be going.

That'll get you up most routes and you should be able to leave a bunch on the ground once you see the route you've chosen.

Eduardo Slabofvic
20-Jul-2015
9:54:23 PM
On 20/07/2015 Jayford4321 wrote:
> (I like tcu's no one else does)

Wow! You developed you knowledge of rack formation really fast! Well done.

Now all you need to do is pass your year 11 exams and you'll be on your way.
Jgoding
22-Jul-2015
6:59:45 AM
If anyone has good action photos please do pass them on to Robb, assuming you're happy they go in the new guide!
stugang
22-Jul-2015
10:10:08 PM
On 18/07/2015 ben wiessner wrote:
>
>It's just Wendy trolling again :-P

Nah. That's not a troll I think she really wants to spank you.
dan_b
22-Jul-2015
10:19:13 PM
On 20/07/2015 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>On 20/07/2015 Jayford4321 wrote:
>> (I like tcu's no one else does)
>
>Wow! You developed you knowledge of rack formation really fast! Well done.
>
>Now all you need to do is pass your year 11 exams and you'll be on your
>way.

Hopefully none of the routes at Moonarie have too many grips.
Wendy
23-Jul-2015
8:38:23 PM
On 18/07/2015 Jayford4321 wrote:
>Bivvying at top camp is fine - but if you pitch a tent up there you should
>be shot.
>

What bizzare idea is this? Given that there is nowhere to put a tent bar the rock slab that is top camp and you can't harm that pitching a tent on it, the tent is the least of concerns. You could only get about 2 of them to fit so it's also pleasantly self limiting.

>As long as you're not wasteful with the water in the tank staying up there
>is fine and quite an experience. The water hysteria is a beat up.

Let me demonstrate some simple maths for those disinclined to grasp the bigger picture. Say each person staying at top camp uses 5l a day in drinking, cooking, washing (and I suspect I'm underestimating most people's water usage). We have 7 people at top camp for a week that's 7x7x5. That's 245l of water. That tank is not big..I'll err on the generous side and say 500l. So if Ben's group had stayed the 2 weeks they intended, the tank would be empty.

Then there is everyone's favourite passtime - shit counting. Let say 7 people over 7 days pump out 49 of them. Top camp is in a small sloping section of scrubby scree in between the main cliff and the smaller cliffs you walk through on the way up. There's just not that much space to bury a lot of shit.

Stay at top camp if you want, but carry in water and carry out shit. Pretend it's a big wall in the Valley.
Wendy
23-Jul-2015
8:53:06 PM
On 20/07/2015 Jayford4321 wrote:
>All in all a standard rack will suffice which for me is
>- Rps
>-1.5 sets of wires (the .5 comes from doubling the smaller sizes where
>your small cams won't fit)
>-1 set small cams (I like tcu's no one else does)
>-1 set cams only going big if you really know you'll need it (there should
>be a bit of overlap between your small large cams and your large small
>cams)
>

I'd take a wee bit more than that. Moonarie has plenty of long, sustained pitches. I would take a full double set of wires, double set cams from green alien to gold camalot. plus a blue and grey, probably even 2 blues. If you are aiming for easier grades, definately 2 blues, maybe even more big gear and drop some aliens. I know that's not really a fair swap, but there are lots of big chunky cracks in 13-18 range. I can't remember ever placing an rp at Moonarie and unless you want to do something like Dryland or Hypertension, you will get way more use out of extra big nuts and mid sized cams. To be perfectly honest, I'd actually have at least a triple set of cams plus some big ones and my extra set of superlight rocks with me to pick and chose from, so I'm already downsizing to most people more modest expectations.

robb
23-Jul-2015
10:04:07 PM
Hi Rock winkle.
I am hoping sometime in 2016. its quite a time consuming task putting a guide together. Its progressing well after dawdling for a while.

gear wise.
the routes and pitches are usually long and sustained
12-15 draws and extenders
1.5 - 2 sets of wires
micro cams - 3 camelot.
4 camelot size can be used on occasion

and bring a headlamp.

stugang
23-Jul-2015
10:43:42 PM
Re tents - flat rock Is the one nice spot to dump and sort your gear and chill after the walk up. Sticking a dome in the middle of it so you can be comfy is just fking inconsiderate to the majority of people camping below. And I would add is completely missing the point of the experience of bivvying in the pound

Re water - most of the time there is a flow of water to top up the tank and I'd suggest that most times of the year you'd be hard pressed to empty it - especially the time of year Ben appears to have been up there. Despite this I did say "careful use of water" and 2 weeks 7 people up there is not only "not careful" I doubt it would be much fun - for that sort of trip chilling around a fire at bottom camp is way more preferable.

Re water2 - cute thought experiment. But I have spent 6 - 8 weeks bivvying near top camp (not at it as funnily enough I never have and never will as there are many better places to stay) with minimum 2 of us but up to 6 at the worst time of year for water flow ( ie autumn) which also included the Easter weekend. This was also the time of the old galvo tank. Only right at the end did we get close to the bottom and not that it was foreseen that way but it turned out to be a great time to clear out kilos and I mean kilos of sediment, sludge, dead lizards and more dead lizards (that's not a joke). We were back there a month or two later once winter hit and it was full and clean again.

Re your fecal obsession - moonarie is big, people that climb there are few. All in all the fecal load will be at bottom camp as most people stay there so a bit of spreading it up the slope can't be bad. If anything bottom campers should be encouraged to squeeze in that morning post coffee shit until they are at least a bit up the track. Sure you need to be sensible but all in all i'd kind of be happy if shit got to be a problem up there.

Re gear - he asked whether there was anything gear specific. There is nothing. I concede the two sets of wires might be handy but ain't necessary with overlap on cam sizes. RPs or equivalent small wire are essential if you have an aversion to dying on a lot of the face routes over grade 20 - you can get away without a lot of the time but not when you need it. I would be a cripple or dead without RPs on the Great Wall. Finally I've climbed a high percentage of the main routes up there and I have never ever ever taken more gear than what I recommended up a route.

My advice was based in the premise that if you are a two set of cam person you are a two set of cam person and therefore shouldn't be asking or offering advice.

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