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O.T. - Climbing For Christ Australia


dave h.

6-May-2010
7:32:13 PM

At the moment I'm at work eating dinner, so I'll reply more fully later.

But thanks for the apology Rodw. Sorry if I misunderstood your point and consequently over-reacted.


rodw

6-May-2010
7:39:35 PM

No probs Dave all forgiven, your penance is having to work while eating dinner :)

tastybigmac

6-May-2010
7:47:09 PM

look no further your saviour is here!

One Day Hero

7-May-2010
12:04:13 PM

Every time I need to make a decision in climbing, I just think "what would Jesus do?" This approach has gotten me out of numerous scrapes and brought endless joy and happiness to my life which radiates outwards as my joy and support for everyone involved in this wonderous adventure which we are blessed to be sharing :)


dimpet

7-May-2010
12:12:00 PM

Its all fine and good when the only person affected by the belief, is the person with the belief, but when it starts affecting others then its just not on any more. In my mind this includes family and children.

Basically people should be free to believe anything they like as long as the belief has no affect on anybody else.


Hendo

7-May-2010
12:36:48 PM

On 7/05/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
> The big guy should be providing this, he'd have me on board in no
>time if he'd just show up and say g'day.......is he some sort of c--t or
>something? Demanding devotion while sneakily never providing any evidence
>(of the sort which would be accepted by intelligent adults in a court of
>law) seems like a c--t sort of thing to do, if you ask me!

I think one of the arguments is that the whole thing is not just about believing; supposing this is all true, the Devil clearly knows God exists. It is also about making a choice to be holy and embracing God etc, which requires some kind of spiritual journey and not just ‘oh, there is God’. So the existence part is the first step, but not necessarily the most important one. Making people believe will impact on the subsequent steps…I wonder if God agrees :P

On 7/05/2010 dimpet wrote:
>Its all fine and good when the only person affected by the belief, is the
>person with the belief, but when it starts affecting others then its just
>not on any more.

Everybody impacts on others, every belief impacts on others, there is no avoiding it. Believing something to be false and hence not partaking in something has an impact.


Pat

7-May-2010
3:19:13 PM

So for those in this discussion who require total and unequivocal proof that God exisits, are you agnostic or atheist?

dmc

7-May-2010
3:25:34 PM

Have you asked God if he exists??

one day hero

7-May-2010
4:10:08 PM

On 7/05/2010 Pat wrote:
>So for those in this discussion who require total and unequivocal proof
>that God exisits, are you agnostic or atheist?

I believe in things for which I have evidence. Am I hanging out for evidence of god to appear? Of course not, it ain't coming!


Hendo

7-May-2010
4:28:33 PM

On 7/05/2010 one day hero wrote:
>I believe in things for which I have evidence. Am I hanging out for evidence
>of god to appear? Of course not, it ain't coming!

I can see this thread now becoming embroiled in a debate as to what constitutes evidence, are recordings of 'evidence' (miracles etc) in the past sufficient etc.

C'mon Dave, I know you want to.


Pat

7-May-2010
4:29:00 PM

What about total and unequivocal proof that God doesn't exist. Do you have that?


dimpet

7-May-2010
4:32:27 PM

I don't think this is true at all. It may be true in some instances but its not always true.
What exactly is the impact of not partaking?

On 7/05/2010 Hendo wrote:
>Everybody impacts on others, every belief impacts on others, there is
>no avoiding it. Believing something to be false and hence not partaking
>in something has an impact.


rodw

7-May-2010
4:35:53 PM

On 7/05/2010 dimpet wrote:
>I don't think this is true at all. It may be true in some instances but
>its not always true.
>What exactly is the impact of not partaking?

Less money in the collection plate on Sunday perhaps?


Hendo

7-May-2010
4:41:51 PM

On 7/05/2010 dimpet wrote:
>I don't think this is true at all. It may be true in some instances but
>its not always true.
>What exactly is the impact of not partaking?

Roughly, if you believe something you do one if thing, if you don't believe that something you do something else. The difference between the two things is the impact.

Give me an example of when you don't think there will be an impact and I'll think of an impact.


dimpet

7-May-2010
4:45:45 PM

I did said it may be true in some instances, but not always.

For example if i believe riding to work is the best way to get to work.
How does that affect someone who walks to work?

dalai

7-May-2010
4:48:51 PM

On 7/05/2010 dimpet wrote:
>I did said it may be true in some instances, but not always.
>
>For example if i believe riding to work is the best way to get to work.
>
>How does that affect someone who walks to work?

You could run them over as they step off the curb with iPod cranked up and not looking?


Hendo

7-May-2010
4:51:44 PM

well, that prevents you from being on the footpath, slowing progress of someone else, potentially knocking over some old lady, all kinds of stuff. It means you are on the road (maybe) irritating some motorists, you might get bowled over one day costing a pot of gold to put you through hospital...the possibilities are endless.


dimpet

7-May-2010
5:14:08 PM

But you are all only considering the possibilities that cause an interaction, not the many more likely ones that do not.


dave h.

7-May-2010
6:34:54 PM

Thanks Rod :) My job does have other fringe benefits so it's not all bad!

Sure ODH. If I was taken to court and charged I'd hope that there'd need to be proof. But to take your analogy further, that evidence could be documentary evidence.

I don't know what church you're referring to when you talk about the church requiring people to spend a lot of money. Some churches push people to give in a manner that I'd consider appropriate. In terms of "arse kissing", again I don't know exactly what you're referring to. If I concede that an omnipotent God who created the universe exists, then to me it seems pretty logical to realise that I'm pretty small in comparison.

Now I have to go. I will write more about the question of evidence for God either later tonight or sometime tomorrow...

Wendy

7-May-2010
7:05:59 PM

Before everyone gets too carried away, this debate has all happened before, we've just changed particpants

http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=DisplayTopic&ForumID=1&MessageID=79208&PagePos=&Sort=&Replies=192&MsgPagePos=0

There are 159 messages in this topic.