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Tiger Wall - Dribble Bolting?

otmab

27-Aug-2009
11:41:35 AM

On 27/08/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>Could a committee be considered somewhat responsible in the event of a
>failure?

I assume you're talking about a 'bolting failure'? ie Bolt falls out, someone dies, someone drops drill on
someone's head, someone dies.... No, the committee just says it's OK to put the bolt in, they don't do
the bolting. It'd simply be a small group of locals that care passionately about the subject, and meet
semi-regularly. *Bolting hopefuls would know they'd need to contact the group first*.


nmonteith

27-Aug-2009
12:04:35 PM

But if they vote NOT to put an extra bolt in, then someone falls off and gets injured due to there not being
a bolt - theoretically that committee could be blamed for not making it safe enough. This is not my
personal belief - but the way lawyers work!


Eduardo Slabofvic

27-Aug-2009
12:12:47 PM

On 27/08/2009 nmonteith wrote:
> This is not my
>personal belief - but the way lawyers work!

Indeed. As it is never the fault of the person who decided to go and do the climb.

psd

27-Aug-2009
12:31:41 PM

What on earth makes you think this committee would ever agree on anything and if they did it would be "the right thing"?


nmonteith

27-Aug-2009
12:36:54 PM

People will always disagree.


Robb

27-Aug-2009
12:39:51 PM

On 27/08/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>People will always disagree.

i'd agree with that neil


ajfclark

27-Aug-2009
12:40:53 PM

And we've all heard the saying, which is true as well as witty,
That a camel is a horse that was designed by a committee.

from Peter and the Commissar by Allan Sherman


Sabu

27-Aug-2009
12:49:28 PM

On 27/08/2009 beefy wrote:
>On 27/08/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>>People will always disagree.
>
>i'd agree with that neil

I don't... !!


ajfclark

27-Aug-2009
12:55:43 PM

On 27/08/2009 Sabu wrote:
>On 27/08/2009 beefy wrote:
>>i'd agree with that neil
>I don't... !!

This is reminding me of the two door in Labyrinth. Which one of you always lies and which one always tells the truth?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

27-Aug-2009
12:56:41 PM

On 27/08/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>And we've all heard the saying, which is true as well as witty,
>That a camel is a horse that was designed by a committee.
>
>from Peter and the Commissar by Allan Sherman

Religious committee?

Heh^{X back to the Labyrinth oubliette with you M9 !}


evanbb

27-Aug-2009
12:56:45 PM

On 27/08/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>But if they vote NOT to put an extra bolt in, then someone falls off and
>gets injured due to there not being a bolt

This is a bit old, but I doubt this would ever be the case. How could you argue that someone died because a bolt wasn't there? For that to happen they would have to make a lot of bad decisions to get there.

The ridiculous conclusion of this argument is also that there should be bolts everywhere, because someone could die because there is not a bolt there.

All I'm saying is that this should not be our concern.


nmonteith

27-Aug-2009
1:16:57 PM

No, what I'm saying is... (hypothetical minutes of the meeting)

Bazza - so I did Dribble the other day and that third belay is shit. I couldn't place any gear and my
partner had to solo second the pitch. So do you guys in the committee reckon we should put some
bolts in to stop someone injuring themselves?

Dazza - No, I believe its safe as it currently is.

Cazza - yere, its safe as houses.

Dazza - lets vote on putting the bolts in.

Bazza - aye!

Dazza & Cazza - (in unison) nay

Bazza - oh well nay it is then. The official stance is that the route is currently safe.

Next day someone falls off and dies. Someone points out to the coroner that the local safety
committee voted that it was currently safe. Suddenly Mr Coroner wants to know more...


wallwombat

27-Aug-2009
1:21:59 PM

This thread is fantastic!


IdratherbeclimbingM9

27-Aug-2009
1:27:10 PM

>233 messages

~>that'll keep the hypothetical Coroner busy!
... and without following any cross-links!!

~> The Chockstone Committee may not get paid, but there is plenty of ~~flaming~~open transparency to read!!!

Heh^{Xsimey is impressed?}

ww wrote:
>This thread is fantastic!

~> additional suitable pics you could have used?

or this perhaps?

☺

egosan

27-Aug-2009
1:45:08 PM

When ever we go climbing we are exposing ourselves to risks whether we acknowledge
them or not. If you want to live a long time as a climber you study these risks and do
what you can to mitigate them. This whole process is at most shared by two people and
even then the climber on the pointy end of the rope is the one making the important
decisions all by his or her lonesome. The consequence of those decisions could very
well be fatal. We accept the consequences of our decisions even if they suck. We
cannot avoid them.

In the face of the reality that the next time I climb I could die, it seems very naive to trust
bolting decisions to a committee. These bolting issues will be resolved like many other
things when some individual decides to fire up the drill or the grinder. Committee or no
someone will act. The best you can do as an individual is clearly express what you
believe is right and to act on that. Just like climbing on lead, you better be prepared to
answer for your actions.

To this end, I have to compliment simey for answering for his bolts on Dribble. He
believes they were right to be placed and can say clearly why. History will tell if those
bolts stay. Expect the next bolt placed at Mt. Arapiles to be questioned just as
rigorously.

To this end we can thank all the Agitators on chockstone for not being afraid to speak up
on the subject of bolting. I for one refuse to abdicate my responsibilities to a committee.

Shamelessly agitating,

Sol


wallwombat

27-Aug-2009
2:27:20 PM

IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

> additional suitable pics you could have used?

As you know, M9, I have used those pics. I didn't want to repeat myself.

Perhaps I should have used this.


rodw

27-Aug-2009
2:41:12 PM

I prefer this when an argument bogs down....


evanbb

27-Aug-2009
2:59:07 PM

On 27/08/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>

>
>

I like this.

We're getting close to Bunny Pancake time.


wallwombat

27-Aug-2009
3:34:41 PM

On 27/08/2009 evanbb wrote:

>We're getting close to Bunny Pancake time.

Bunny does waffles too.


ajfclark

27-Aug-2009
3:42:39 PM

He does a lot of things:

More randomness: http://www.fsinet.or.jp/~sokaisha/rabbit/rabbit.htm (balancing starts on the 24th May 1999)

There are 288 messages in this topic.