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OT: Skeptics vs Alarmist Cage Match unSpectacular!

R James

22-Jun-2009
4:40:25 PM

It certainly interesting that, based in this plot, the faster anthropogenic CO2 increases, the slower temperature increases. It's just one more, of many, bits of evidence that should make us question anthropogenic warming. There's just too much real data that doesn't fit the hypotheses, and little, if any, that does.


Eduardo Slabofvic

22-Jun-2009
4:47:03 PM

On 22/06/2009 evanbb wrote:
>On 22/06/2009 Sabu wrote:
>>FFS enough already!
>
>I agree.
>

Me too. Let’s start debating the outrageous proliferation of bolts instead.............. or blue tarps.............or dogs.

I recon you could go back through all the posts on this thread and change the words "Climate Change" to the word "Bolting" and the outcome would be the same.

It would probably also work if you changed the acronym "IPCC" to the words "sport climbers".

Let's see if it works........ begging evanbb's license: -

"Other people disagree with the Sport Climbers. Lots of people are addressing bolting."


evanbb

22-Jun-2009
5:01:50 PM

On 22/06/2009 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>Let's see if it works........ begging evanbb's license: -
>
>"Other people disagree with the Sport Climbers. Lots of people are addressing
>bolting."
>

Proof of this hypothesis is that I clipped, up to as many as FOURTEEN bolts on the weekend, which is an 18 month high.

If this trend continues, bucking the previous 2 year trend of no bolts, then it is conceivable that by the end of this year, all I will be able to do is clip bolts. There'll be so many bolts around you won't be able to fall over without being caught on a shiny ring bolt.

Can we talk about Godwin Grech? That man's in trouble. I just got back from Parly House to see a bit of the shit hitting the fan over the ute/finance fiasco. God they carry on like pork chops in the Big House.


tnd

22-Jun-2009
5:27:15 PM

On 22/06/2009 evanbb wrote:
>...God they carry on like pork chops in the Big House.

A bit like yourself on Chockstone, it must be said.

jono_1

22-Jun-2009
5:56:45 PM

Re: FFS. I agree.

Tony,

I don't need to listen to Bob Carter's videos to understand that climate has changed naturally in the past. Four years doing an earth science degree gave me a pretty good understanding.

There is such a wealth of information available, neither of us will ever fully comprehend even a tiny bit of how this planet works.

At some point we reach the limit of our knowledge we have to trust someone else. I trust the thousands of scientists who believe we are and will continue to influence climate and that a precautionary approach is the best way forward.

Anyway it was good to see this debate didn't turn nasty.

Adios,Jono


evanbb

22-Jun-2009
6:29:01 PM

On 22/06/2009 tnd wrote:
>On 22/06/2009 evanbb wrote:
>>...God they carry on like pork chops in the Big House.
>
>A bit like yourself on Chockstone, it must be said.

Oh yeah, no debate here. Some of my posts are fabricated by others though.

R James

22-Jun-2009
10:33:59 PM

On 22/06/2009 jono_1 wrote:
>Re: FFS. I agree.
I trust the thousands of scientists who believe we are and will continue
>to influence climate

I wonder why you therefore distrust the thousands who believe the opposite?


ajfclark

22-Jun-2009
10:45:45 PM

On 22/06/2009 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>It would probably also work if you changed the acronym "IPCC" to the words "sport climbers".

It reminded me most of reading about aliens on rockclimbing.com:

"I love my aliens"
"But they are death traps waiting to happen, look at the evidence here: [link]"
"That testing is flawed. They're lying to bring down CCH. It's all a conspiracy."

etc.


evanbb

23-Jun-2009
6:27:09 AM

On 22/06/2009 R James wrote:
>On 22/06/2009 jono_1 wrote:
>>Re: FFS. I agree.
> I trust the thousands of scientists who believe we are and will continue
>>to influence climate
>
>I wonder why you therefore distrust the thousands who believe the opposite?

Not really comparing apples with apples here RJ.

Using Australia as an example, there's only really 5 scientists who have spoken against climate change.

In the US, the peak body is The Heartland Institute, whose opinion I do not value at all. They have also produced 'science' proving that smoking is good for you, God created the world and that Darwin was a known lier. Hardly a fair fight really.


anthonyk

23-Jun-2009
10:22:04 AM

On 22/06/2009 R James wrote:
>It certainly interesting that, based in this plot, the faster anthropogenic
>CO2 increases, the slower temperature increases. It's just one more, of
>many, bits of evidence that should make us question anthropogenic warming.
>There's just too much real data that doesn't fit the hypotheses, and little,
>if any, that does.

the plot is completely and utterly meaningless, I thought you were a little bit more credible than that RJ. that section of the graph that he's drawn out is a section between a small local minimum (around 1920) and a local max (around 1945), but you CAN'T call the gradient between them a trend. it means nothing! there's other effects like volcanoes and all sorts of things that make wobbles in the data, you can't micro-analyse this stuff and draw any conclusions.


evanbb

23-Jun-2009
10:58:21 AM

This is the most transparent graph I've seen yet. I like it:

Each of the blue lines represents the 8 year trend centred around that point. Makes sense? Like lots of little rolling averages.

From this article in Crikey:
http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/06/22/memo-steve-fielding-heres-an-answer-to-your-question/

Who stole it from RealClimate.


anthonyk

23-Jun-2009
10:58:40 AM

On 22/06/2009 TonyB wrote:
>As I have said several times before, theoretically CO2 increases DO increase
>temperatures by a tiny amount due to the greenhouse effect. However CO2
>is a minor greenhouse gas, and the greenhouse effect itself plays a minor
>role in global temperature changes.

the greenhouse effect is the difference between a -18 degree and a 15 degree avg temperature earth, hardly minor. and yes anthropogenic CO2 is small compared to the rest of the greenhouse effect, but the extra few degrees on top can really mess up climate.

are you going to enlighten us with what the other forcings are thats causing the current warming if its not our CO2 then? or did you get it from one of malcolm turnbulls emails?

R James

23-Jun-2009
1:55:46 PM

>
>are you going to enlighten us with what the other forcings are thats causing
>the current warming if its not our CO2 then?
Tony might provide a list, but I expect most people could list a lot of these off the top of their head. eg changes in solar activity, changes in cloud cover (which can be due to many effects), continental drift will alter ocean currents, volcanic action (there are about 5,000 known underwater volcano), cyclic changes in the tilt of the Earth, changes in humidity, changes in sea level and ocean area, gravitational changes within our solar system due to planetary movement etc.

There's many more, but these a probably the main drivers. It's probably fair to say that the influence of each one is poorly understood, and their interactions are highly complex. However, they've been driving climate for millions of years through conditions more extreme than we've seen in our lifetime. It seems, however, that through negative feedback, they've managed to regulate our climate reasonably well through conditions of much higher CO2 levels than we are seeing now.


anthonyk

23-Jun-2009
3:15:16 PM

On 23/06/2009 R James wrote:
>>
>>are you going to enlighten us with what the other forcings are thats
>causing
>>the current warming if its not our CO2 then?
>Tony might provide a list, but I expect most people could list a lot of
>these off the top of their head. eg changes in solar activity, changes
>in cloud cover (which can be due to many effects), continental drift will
>alter ocean currents, volcanic action (there are about 5,000 known underwater
>volcano), cyclic changes in the tilt of the Earth, changes in humidity,
>changes in sea level and ocean area, gravitational changes within our solar
>system due to planetary movement etc.

you can't just list them, you have to show that they are having an effect as well.. and that it explains the temperature changes we're seeing


evanbb

23-Jun-2009
4:11:12 PM

On 23/06/2009 R James wrote:

>Tony might provide a list.....

Lets leave the science aside for a bit then.

Answer me this then, for my interest mostly. Are you opposed to a move to renewable energy?

R James

23-Jun-2009
4:38:30 PM

On 23/06/2009 evanbb wrote:

>Answer me this then, for my interest mostly. Are you opposed to a move
>to renewable energy?

No, but as general guidelines, it needs to be reasonably cost effective, and not have a greater impact on the environment than our current energy sources.


wallwombat

23-Jun-2009
5:25:31 PM

I just received an email from Senator Steve Fielding and it seems that, after his trip to the US, he has a handle on all of this.

I hope that sets your minds at ease.

Hmmm...I hope that email wasn't a fake.


anthonyk

23-Jun-2009
5:42:16 PM

On 23/06/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>I just received an email from Senator Steve Fielding and it seems that,
>after his trip to the US, he has a handle on all of this.
>
>I hope that sets your minds at ease.

um, what about all the pirates around somalia these days?

or have they caused the slight lowering of temperature increase since 2001?

R James

23-Jun-2009
10:39:14 PM

On 23/06/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>I just received an email from Senator Steve Fielding and it seems that,
>after his trip to the US, he has a handle on all of this.
>
>

>
>I hope that sets your minds at ease.
>
Yes, the correlation of global temperature with pirates has been around for some time. It's hard to believe it could only be coincidence!!

TonyB

24-Jun-2009
9:27:41 AM

On 23/06/2009 anthonyk wrote:
>On 22/06/2009 TonyB wrote:
>> the greenhouse effect itself plays a minor
>>role in global temperature changes.
>
>...degree avg temperature earth, hardly minor.

Read my post. The greenhouse effect play a minor role in temperature CHANGES.

>are you going to enlighten us with what the other forcings are thats causing
>the current warming if its not our CO2 then?

Have you watched Bob Carter's videos ... these videos demonstrate how global temperatures have been rising and falling for billions of years ... all without any help from man ! There's volumes of literature on what causes these temperature changes ... changes in the earth's tilt, orbit, solar cosmic rays etc etc etc ...

There are 818 messages in this topic.