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Scenario Thread


cruze

13-Sep-2007
7:50:30 PM

Hope I am not being premature Scenario 2:

You are on Hotel California's big brother in the Grose (stop salivating macciza). For sake of argument it is a reasonably run out completely bolted (fantastic glue in machine bolts) pitch that traverses out right from the belay for a full rope length on the very lip of a massive roof. Scary as all hell. You lead out the pitch confidently and, having called safe, are on belay for your partner. They dismantle the belay (which is at the top of 5 vertical pitches and turn around to start the pitch. They immediately faint at the exposure and swing in a largish arc out below the roof so that you are left holding about 1 m of slack. Bummer. They are spinning and unconscious about 200m off the ground - and you were only 2 vertical pitches away from topping out.

What ya gonna do?

Like me you climb with way too much gear: eg three prussiks, assortment of slings and screwgates, spare pair of underwear.


wallwombat

13-Sep-2007
8:08:38 PM

What about this :

1. Lower partner to last belay.

2. You prussik down to your partner.

3. You anchor partner to last belay, NOT using lead rope but cordalette/slings etc. Partner is now unattached from rope.

4. Prussik back up the lead rope to top of pitch. You now have the whole rope to play with. Abseil back down to partner on doubled rope. Obviously you have to shorter raps but the should be bolts/ gear in place on this pitch at least from which to do so.

5. Anchor rope. Abseil down. Set anchor for next abseil before reaching ropes middle mark.

6. Prussik back up to partner. Attach partner to you.

7. Make double rope abseil with partner down to the anchor you have prepared.

8. Anchor partner

9. Repeat steps 5 and 6 until you reach the ground.

It would be a total epic but I think it would work.

And don't forget to piss on your partner first to see if he's just pretending ; )


dave h.

13-Sep-2007
8:33:28 PM

Maybe I'm missing something in scenario #1, but here goes: in all the responses proposed so far the partner is left hanging around while the rescuer prussiks/raps/rope-soloes...

Why isn't he going to die from harness hang syndrome? (Not that I have a better solution. I'm just putting this out there...)


Macciza

13-Sep-2007
8:37:17 PM

Ooh I know this one . . .
Lock off rope with 1 prussik, tie backup knot to belay with 1m slack,
Make cowtail setup and traverse tightline to bolt they are hanging frrom.
place 2nd prussic on down ropeand tension as much as possible.
Head back to belay and rlease load on to second prussic just set
Tie in to end of rope then use prussic or belay device to self belay back towards climber
Stop at bolt before climber clip in hard, tie alpine butterfly on rope and clip to bolt hang free end down.
Abseil/ pendulum to victim rope, clip to it and descend to victim
Stabiltse etc then it all depends on wether they wake up or not
Hopefully they are lost for the duration as that will get ibto some quite technical rope shenanigans to
be able to get the victim over to vertical climbing territory.

PS My experience out there was less dramatic on Contented Cows to the left.
We took an alpine approach soloing a fair way up a steep bushy buttress before we had to rope up due
to steep exposed rock bank. Further steep scrambling took us to just below the half way ledge where
another short pitch can be soloed to the halfway ledge proper, From here HC traverse out right,
Contented Cows heads up the centre of the wall for too pitches. Towards the end of the second pitch,
made slightly more runout out due to lack of slings for chickenheads and few medium cams, it
became apparent that our rope was perhaps a little short and that I should dismantle the belay which
used the rope. Having done so I watched the remaining meagre amount of slack disappear. *** still
needed more rope so I ended having to climb of the midway belayledge and up two bolts then sit there
barefoot for quite a while, Meanwhile the rope giot tied offf to abush allowing *** to reach the belay,
then extendit back to the rope. There was enough stretch to get me back to the ledge on tippy toes,
tension to the pack get my shoes and climb out. A perfect pitch allround I think . . .

PPS Tell me whether the cas wakes up or not . . .


wallwombat

13-Sep-2007
8:51:22 PM

On 13/09/2007 dave h. wrote:
>Maybe I'm missing something in scenario #1, but here goes: in all the responses
>proposed so far the partner is left hanging around while the rescuer prussiks/raps/rope-so
>oes...
>
>Why isn't he going to die from harness hang syndrome? (Not that I have
>a better solution. I'm just putting this out there...)

I'd stabilise him in my bosun's chair. I never leave the ground without it.


Macciza

13-Sep-2007
9:02:15 PM

Well yeah - the lowers with an unconcious patient should be done as counterweight / simulraps . . .

Wollemi

13-Sep-2007
9:02:26 PM

... then set off the EPIRB.
Yes, I do carry it for multi-pitches.


cruze

13-Sep-2007
10:13:06 PM

On 13/09/2007 Macciza wrote:

>PPS Tell me whether the cas wakes up or not . . .

They wake up, say "owwww, hurry up". They will offer you no help...until you get to the vertical terrain/belay.

SHANESHAW

13-Sep-2007
10:32:39 PM

because the other climber was dead can you just cut the rope ? :)


Chuck Norris

13-Sep-2007
11:03:57 PM

On 13/09/2007 SHANESHAW wrote:
>because the other climber was dead can you just cut the rope ? :)

It depends on how much you like your rope.


wallwombat

13-Sep-2007
11:10:03 PM

On 13/09/2007 harold wrote:
>Lower him down to the belay. Prussic down and tie him into the belay and
>take him off the rope. Prussic back up the rope and set up an absiel for
>yourself. Probably have to do two raps to get to the belay. Then repeat
>as above. Could either lower partner if he wakes up and get him to tie
>himself in to belays. Or possibly absiel with partner tied below you. Would
>be an epic

Sorry, harold. I somehow missed your post and then pretty much repeated it in my own thread. Apologies.

Noticed you didn't think of pissing on him , though. Ha!
Didn't think of that one, did you, Mr Clever-pants?


Macciza

14-Sep-2007
1:36:38 AM

On 13/09/2007 SHANESHAW wrote:
>because the other climber was dead can you just cut the rope ? :)

Yes but not with a knife - the coronial inquest scientists will be able to tell, so it is better to use a sharp
rock!

kieranl

14-Sep-2007
8:18:05 PM

Most people are getting wrapped up in the technical aspects and it's important to a point. We're assuming that you had the common sense to carry prussick loops or equivalent to escape the belay and descend the taut rope. I would guess that you'd have two ropes on a long climb, whether you're climbing on doubles, trailing a line or second carrying a light rope for escaping but it's not too relevant.
If you can escape the belay then you have the technology and smarts to get out of there.
The real problem is that your partner has received a major impact to the head and is unconscious. You have to keep them breathing but you have to minimise moving them because they may well have a spinal injury. Your first action when you reach them has to be to make sure that they are breathing and then you have to improvise a cerviacal (?spelling) collar before you move them any more. What have you got to improvise a collar? Maybe shoe under their chin taped in place (if you have brought a simple first aid kit) or tied there with a chalk-bag belt? Got that done! Now try to get them as carefully as you can into a recovery position on what is probably a crappy foot-only ledge.
If they don't regain consciousness then you have to decide whether to stay with them or to go for help. One thing you cannot do is is to continue lowering them. They have serious injuries of unknown extent and should not be moved. Hard call. If they're still unconscious then it's a bad injury and their chances get worse the longer they have to wait before getting to a hospital. On the other hand, if you leave them to get help they might move themselves in a moment of semi-consciousness and choke to death.
Given that the climb is somewhat remote and noone is expecting you home, I suspect that you will have to leave them on the wall and go for help. Not a nice choice but probably the correct one.

Wollemi

14-Sep-2007
8:32:19 PM

Your first action when you reach them has to be to make sure that they are breathing and then you have to improvise a cervical collar before you move them any more. What have you got to improvise a collar? Maybe shoe under their chin taped in place (if you have brought a simple first aid kit) or tied there with a chalk-bag belt? Got that done!

Just love multi-use items! And the EPIRB...

richardo

14-Sep-2007
9:11:38 PM

On 14/09/2007 kieranl wrote:
>Most people are getting wrapped up in the technical aspects and it's important
>to a point. We're assuming that you had the common sense to carry prussick
>loops or equivalent to escape the belay and descend the taut rope

Assume that you did not have common sence. What could you improvise to safely descend? All I can
think of is pushing the heavy rope through a belay device. Is crossed caribiners or an italian hitch easier
for this?

Thank you in advance


muki

14-Sep-2007
10:02:34 PM

On 14/09/2007 richardo wrote:
>Assume that you did not have common sence.
Or the ability to read or count.
>What could you improvise to
>safely descend?
slings can be organised into french prusics to decend
>All I can think of is pushing the heavy rope through a belay device.
Imposible with your partner on the other end!
>Is crossed caribiners or an italian hitch easier for this?
If the rope is body weighted then you cannot decend on friction/rappel devises!
Looks like its back to school!
>Thank you in advance


Macciza

14-Sep-2007
10:11:56 PM

On 14/09/2007 richardo wrote:

>Assume that you did not have common sence. What could you improvise to
>safely descend?

Depending on type - quickdraw slings and biners can make different friction knots . . .
My chalkbag strap is either tape or cord so I could use that - unless I dropped it . . .
Fortunately my approach shoes have 2mm cord for laces - ooops wrong shoes . . .
No knife so I use my laces and friction/heat cut the rope and use bit's of the core or empty sheath
Depending on style bits of harness could also be used . . .

Hope that helps . . .

kieranl

14-Sep-2007
10:16:25 PM

On 14/09/2007 richardo wrote:
>Assume that you did not have common sence. What could you improvise to
>safely descend? All I can
>think of is pushing the heavy rope through a belay device. Is crossed
>caribiners or an italian hitch easier
>for this?
>
>Thank you in advance
If you can't escape the belay system then you are stuffed. You are stuck until someone comes to get you. If you are belaying directly off your belay loop then you will need something that you can tie into a prussik knot to fix to the loaded line so that you can tranfer the weight from your belay device. There's stacks of stuff out there telling you how to do it. What do you do if you have no prussicks? Tape slings, including chalk-bag belts, will work but not as well. Shoelaces might do the job - not so safe but you can use backup knots.
You will not be able to move down a loaded rope using any standard abseil device including cross-krabs or munter(italian) hitch. You will have to prussick down (maybe a Petzl shunt might work, I don't know enough about them).
If you've got nothing else but have a couple of metres of free rope through the belay device and a spare krab you might be able to rig a bachmann knot with the free rope and use that to escape the belay.
However, there is no magic. If you have arrived at the belay with no spare gear it is going to be almost impossible to escape the belay under load. You have no options. Case closed.

richardo

14-Sep-2007
10:22:53 PM

Thank-you Macciza thats exactly what i was after. The concept of cutting off a piece of rope to facilitate
a safe descent never would have occurred to me.

For the real hypothetical challenge - what could you do if you could not cut a piece off as above? Also
you have no gear other than fully sewn quickdraws and whatever rack is left over from a 35m pitch?

I don't want to bait anyone, but what I would be interested to know is if there are any non-prussick ways
of descending a tight rope

kieranl

14-Sep-2007
10:27:03 PM

On 14/09/2007 richardo wrote:
>>I don't want to bait anyone, but what I would be interested to know is
>if there are any non-prussick ways
>of descending a tight rope
You might just have to do it by hand, clipped to the rope with some draws

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