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Ben Lomond Bolts Removed

kieranl

16-Apr-2007
9:10:04 PM

On 16/04/2007 n00bpwn3r wrote:
>Simplistically yes, however the notion of a no fixed protection area is
>both alien and intrusive to "Traditional" Australian ethics.
Quoi!! Je ne comprend pas!

spicelab

16-Apr-2007
9:25:29 PM

On 16/04/2007 n00bpwn3r wrote:
>If you feel the need to put people into boxes then go right ahead, but
>I wouldn't believe everthing you read.
>

I wouldn't fret too much, you're doing that perfectly well on your own.

maxdacat

16-Apr-2007
10:25:04 PM

so what happens next....someone puts a piece of tat and a maillon round a tree?

a few pegs would also comply with a "no-bolt" policy but both would possibly have a greater visual impact.


Vertigo

16-Apr-2007
10:32:18 PM

On 16/04/2007 n00bpwn3r wrote:
>On 16/04/2007 TLockwood wrote:
>>
>>well considering your profile says u dont climb trad,
>
>If you feel the need to put people into boxes then go right ahead, but
>I wouldn't believe everthing you read.
>
>Why should one individual impose their values on another? Just because
>I don't agree with you doesn't make it wrong.

Matty Boy-C'mon if you dont climb trad than you have no prespective on the "actual" trad climbing.if however you do,then update your profile.
Second,congrats on your "facts & figures" of Aust climbing history/ethics,If you have climbed trad in aust you would understand the need to keep these areas pure to the "old" ethics,like what is proactively going on at Ben Lomond-you wouldnt say comments like this=
"Basically what I'm saying is, good luck on the no bolting policy (bolting is illegal in all National Parks, not just Tassie) but if I went there and felt that I had to really do a new route and it needed a bolt, I would put it in and not give a rat's arse what other people have told me what I could and couldn't do. "

So youre happy to break the NPWS law you needed to make me aware of ,cause you "dont give a rats arse",and i know the NP Rangers in my area would have your arse for placing ANY bolts.So how about that Australian Trad Ethics Speech you posted earlier?????


n00bpwn3r

16-Apr-2007
10:49:24 PM

Vertigo,

Please try reading my post again. Traditional Aust. Ethics is not to be confused with what is today considered "Trad" ethics, these are 2 completely different things.

I think any National Parks Officer would not be very pleased, but it's an almost impossible thing to prosecute. You have to be physically caught in the act, hear say doesn't hold up the last I heard, neither being caught in possession of bolting equipment in a national park. Firearms, dogs and cats, yes. Petrol drill, no.


Vertigo

16-Apr-2007
11:04:31 PM

You keep contradicting yourself?
This is a forum for discussion,not ramblings.have some depth and if you have a strong view thats good,but make sense!
Im happy that you know the difference between old and new,but you are a shining example of the type of ethics that destroy climbing access to National Parks,put Rangers offside,and have complete disregard for the other users in the park.Its such a fragile link that we have with the NPWS and if you walk around with a "petrol Drill" in a NP,you are showing complete disregard for the WHOLE climbing community,And an extreemly un-proactive approach to climbing ethics.


nmonteith

16-Apr-2007
11:45:04 PM

On 16/04/2007 maxdacat wrote:
>so what happens next....someone puts a piece of tat and a maillon round
>a tree?

This area is alpine. There are no trees large enough to put tat and mallions around. Just walk down the
back and enjoy the scenery and views.


MrKyle

16-Apr-2007
11:46:12 PM

Full support to Gerry and Bob from me.
Kyle.


oweng

17-Apr-2007
8:57:34 AM

I would love to see the whole of Ben Lomond stay bolt free. Its a unique trad climbing area. It could be one of the few (maybe the only?) significant climbing areas in the world without a single bolt assisted climb.

If there was a shortage of other cliffs around, it would be a nonsense. But there is no shortage of other cliffs in tassie (and around Launceston) on which to put up bolted routes.

I disagree with the removal of the bolted rap points though. I think there is a strong differentiation between bolts placed to assist climbing up, and bolts placed to assist going down.

The more popular parts of Ben Lomond (like Robins Buttress / Frews Flutes) are only going to see more and more visitors generated by Gerrys awesome Tassie Selected Guide, and by the Ben Lomond guidebook when it comes out. Without rap points this will lead to damage to the descent gully, and the development of messy nests of slings.

So I guess I dont support the chopping of the rap points, but support the reinforcement of the area as a bolt free zone. And I guess I can see that perhaps the chopping of the rap points may have been a necessary "message" to get that point across.


dougal

17-Apr-2007
10:11:05 AM

Do the climbing community a favour and just leave it (even though you could reasonably argue for rap stations it's not essential and like Neil says walk off and enjoy). Full trad areas are an endangered species. Completely different head space required. Preserve the experience.

Bloke on second (first climb at Frog - Chocolate Watchband): "(with rising panic in voice) Why don't they just bolt it?!"


Sabu

17-Apr-2007
11:04:56 AM

yep i support this ideal. Trad specific areas are too few and far between. provided the walk off isn't dangerous (im assuming it's not) then an alternate decent route is not needed.
oweng has a point too, perhaps since they were already there there wasn't a need to chop them but the point had to be made.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

17-Apr-2007
11:30:19 AM

On 17/04/2007 Sabu wrote:
>oweng has a point too, perhaps since they were already there there wasn't
>a need to chop them but the point had to be made.

Some people can't distinguish between bolts for up, and bolts for down, and in their mind a bolt is a bolt and therefore valid.

Keep the place bolt free.

If the erosion of a descent route ever becomes an issue then manage it before it gets out of hand perhaps by working the talus into semi-natural* steps? (*not a path).

If usage ever gets to the point of banning climbers due erosion then I would sooner see a 'fixed' (bolted) abseil descent station than Warrumbungle type steps/paths/handrails ... but that will be for the generations in the future to debate.


n00bpwn3r

17-Apr-2007
12:30:20 PM

On 17/04/2007 dougal wrote:
>Do the climbing community a favour

At what point did you become the spokesperson for the Australian climbing community?


gordoste

17-Apr-2007
1:13:52 PM

On 17/04/2007 n00bpwn3r wrote:
>On 17/04/2007 dougal wrote:
>>Do the climbing community a favour
>
>At what point did you become the spokesperson for the Australian climbing
>community?

He took up where you left off.


Garrath

17-Apr-2007
2:28:48 PM

I just love the attitude, its not a problem now so who gives a toss. Reminds me of our own Governements attitude towards climate change, water issues and anything else that just might take place 10 years down the track. Speaking of tracks...........................well thats going to be someone else's problem!!!!


n00bpwn3r

17-Apr-2007
3:29:26 PM

On 16/04/2007 Vertigo wrote:
>You keep contradicting yourself?

Can you be more specific?

>This is a forum for discussion,not ramblings.have some depth and if you
>have a strong view thats good,but make sense!

I have reread my posts at it seems to me that your comprehension skills may be the problem.
> have complete disregard for the
>other users in the park.Its such a fragile link that we have with the NPWS
>and if you walk around with a "petrol Drill" in a NP,you are showing complete
>disregard for the WHOLE climbing community,And an extreemly un-proactive
>approach to climbing ethics.

My turn to say that you don't make sense! How do you assume the thousands of bolts that are placed in cliffs in national parks got there in the first place. Is this WHOLE climbing community you say I have disregard for, the same people who go out and clip these bolts every weekend?

gordoste, at no point did I state that I speak for the climbing community, If you read my original post you will clearly see that it's my opinion.


gordoste

17-Apr-2007
5:15:24 PM

sorry i guess i should make my trolls more obvious


Vertigo

17-Apr-2007
5:49:32 PM

ok n00bpwn3r,all of us are wrong and you are right.

The point is that (as you have taught me) they are NO LONGER ALLOWED,and you are running around with this "petrol Drill" not giving a "rats arse".

But dont be offended,my inability to comprehend means that i must have mis-read that post...........


Jackie

18-Apr-2007
3:04:12 AM

Ah crap re the chopped bolts.

Now the latest guide to tassie climbing will have unsuspecting leaders crawling around on the loose
scabby stuff atop the mega-classics searching for non-existent bolts.

IMO the pieces of tat and old scabby slings scttered all over the flutes are a whole lot more unsightly
than the rap bolts.

Ronny

18-Apr-2007
9:06:52 AM

Yeah but its not about what's 'unsightly'. Its about having an area where you have to deal solely with the natural form of the rock - no changing (drilling holes) allowed.

I don't think its a case that there will all of a sudden be new bunches of slings popping up all over the flutes - if that was going to happen, it would already have occurred.

Slings may be unsightly, but they can always be removed and no trace is left - unlike bolts.
James

There are 114 messages in this topic.