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Sonnie Trotter Goes Down on Tasmania


ambyeok

22-Feb-2016
1:39:13 PM

Hi all, I have been working on top roping one of the boulder routes out at black range, I am pretty close to getting it. I just wanted to check whether I need to remove and replace the top rope anchor in-between attempts?

Jayford4321

22-Feb-2016
1:48:43 PM

On 22/02/2016 ambyeok wrote:
>Hi all, I have been working on top roping one of the boulder routes out
>at black range, I am pretty close to getting it. I just wanted to check
>whether I need to remove and replace the top rope anchor in-between attempts?

U should team up with jay67.5 cos he dont get up stuff in good style too.

grangrump

22-Feb-2016
5:47:43 PM

On 22/02/2016 ambyeok wrote:
>Hi all, I have been working on top roping one of the boulder routes out
>at black range
Take care! A few of the higher problems at Black Range are scary highball

Karl Bromelow

23-Feb-2016
8:19:21 AM

On 22/02/2016 simey wrote:

>It seems weird to be able to claim an ascent of say an E9 even though you
>didn't climb it in the required manner.

It's not that hard to understand though is it? The routes are graded, not the ascent according to style, otherwise half a dozen different grading systems would be required for every hard route. The default grading system is that for the purest style of ascent. Pretty much all hard trad climb first ascents over recent years have been described with reference to shortcomings in the style. It's all pretty honest and not worth getting too worked up about. Most hard UK climbers aren't deluded about their grade claims, I'm sure. Nobody is blowing their own trumpet too hard right now though the sponsors and media like to pump it up.

Cheers, Karl

simey

23-Feb-2016
10:06:12 AM

On 23/02/2016 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>It's not that hard to understand though is it? The routes are graded,
>not the ascent according to style, otherwise half a dozen different grading
>systems would be required for every hard route. The default grading system
>is that for the purest style of ascent.

Well trying to grade boldness is even more subjective than grading difficulty, particularly when no one has even climbed the routes in the style they are being graded for. That's why routes are better off being graded purely for difficulty with a description telling you what the inherent dangers are.

Karl Bromelow

23-Feb-2016
10:45:20 AM

On 23/02/2016 simey wrote:

>Well trying to grade boldness is even more subjective than grading difficulty,
>particularly when no one has even climbed the routes in the style they
>are being graded for. That's why routes are better off being graded purely
>for difficulty with a description telling you what the inherent dangers
>are.
>

Surely your assertion that grading boldness is more subjective than grading difficulty is in itself subjective. Personally I don't get on with the Ewbank system at all. I find numerous dicrepencies wherever I climb, even between individually graded pitches on multi pitch routes. That might be because of it's misuse or because it doesn't work or because I just don't get it. I wouldn't know but it is still largely alien to me. If you had lived your climbing life in the UK you would most probably be using the system they use there, you would understand it's strengths and it's weaknesses and you might even be defending it patriotically. I'm done, surf's up. Get off E grades and back to Mr Trotter.

One Day Hero

23-Feb-2016
11:08:18 AM

On 23/02/2016 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>I find numerous dicrepencies wherever I climb, even
>between individually graded pitches on multi pitch routes. That might be
>because of it's misuse or because it doesn't work or because I just don't
>get it.

So grade discrepancy on long routes never occurs in the u.k.? Are there even chunks of rock tall enough for multipitch routes on that damp little island of yours?

kieranl

23-Feb-2016
11:26:09 AM

I knew that popcorn would come in handy. Fire away...


Goshen

23-Feb-2016
11:51:17 AM

While this thread has starting going a bit downhill, is has contained moments of intellectual brilliance; and is required reading for any climbers remotely interested in style (although I appreciate that many are not).

I like what people have said about Malcolm's style, I appreciate that CJ's probably right in that top-roping through a crux sequence with preplaced wires on a crack climb (irrespective of grade) and claiming an FA is a no-no.

And that in general, pre-placing gear on a FA is not in good style (I'm guilty of the odd wire in an FA, but thinking about it, would totally try to avoid it). Although I agree with Simon; that top-roping is just as bad...

If all else fails, and style goes out the window (as it does, sometimes); keep it honest by writing good descriptions of climbs, and the style of the ascent or FA.


shortman

23-Feb-2016
12:00:47 PM

Feels like it has been years since Chockstone has had a good 'ol battle like this one...

White Trash

23-Feb-2016
12:04:42 PM

>OCD

Whats that?


Eduardo Slabofvic

23-Feb-2016
12:26:59 PM

On 23/02/2016 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>>Get off E grades.
>
>
>

Yes, indeed. Everyone knows that the POMEs dropped the ball with their grading system when they got to "E" (for Extreme, I believe).

Instead of E2, they should have used RE, for Really Extreme, then RFE, for Really FucI
Then they could have taken it up a notch with "G", for Gnarly, and so on.

An opportunity sorely missed.

I await Mr Gribbles well considered reply.


Macciza

23-Feb-2016
12:38:58 PM

On 23/02/2016 White Trash wrote:
>>OCD
>Whats that?

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder . .
But strictly speaking it should be CDO .... Cause letters should be in alphabetic order !!!

simey

23-Feb-2016
12:56:08 PM

On 23/02/2016 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>Surely your assertion that grading boldness is more subjective than grading
>difficulty is in itself subjective. Personally I don't get on with the
>Ewbank system at all. I find numerous dicrepencies wherever I climb, even
>between individually graded pitches on multi pitch routes. That might be
>because of it's misuse or because it doesn't work or because I just don't
>get it. I wouldn't know but it is still largely alien to me. If you had
>lived your climbing life in the UK you would most probably be using the
>system they use there, you would understand it's strengths and it's weeknesses
>and you might even be defending it patriotically. I'm done, surf's up.
>Get off E grades and back to Mr Trotter.
>

Mr Trotter was only the starting point for a bigger discussion.

I have climbed a lot in the UK and so I am very familiar with the grading system, but in the end I still thought it had way too many weirdnesses... words, numbers, letters, the boldness and endurance elements wrapped up in the same part of the grade and then the hardest technical move as a separate number/letter combo. What a head fcuk! And then they ultimately use French grading when their own system fails!

As for trying to grade boldness... well the reason that it is more subjective is because there are more elements to take into consideration and those elements are subject to less real world testing ie. You don't fall off every metre of a route and yank on every suss block to test its relative safety (unless you are Eduardo), but you do (try to) climb every metre of a route which gives you a good indication of its difficulty relative to other climbs.

Jayford4321

23-Feb-2016
2:06:20 PM

On 23/02/2016 simey wrote:
>As for trying to grade boldness... well the reason that it is more subjective
>is because there are more elements to take into consideration and those
>elements are subject to less real world testing ie. You don't fall off
>every metre of a route and yank on every suss block to test its relative
>safety (unless you are Eduardo), but you do (try to) climb every metre
>of a route which gives you a good indication of its difficulty relative
>to other climbs.
>
simey, I have to take exception with your example of Eduardo.
He is the boldest climber I kno, cos why else would he keep trying and surviving?
I do however note that you give him the respect he deserves by capitalising the first letter of his name.

Another thing, this relative difficulty thing 2 is subjective.
When was the last time you did Tiptoe Ridge with a martini induced hangover?
All kudos to Eduardo!

White Trash

23-Feb-2016
2:18:53 PM

thx Macca

Karl Bromelow

23-Feb-2016
2:31:29 PM

On 23/02/2016 One Day Hero wrote:

>So grade discrepancy on long routes never occurs in the u.k.? Are there
>even chunks of rock tall enough for multipitch routes on that damp little
>island of yours?

There's no rock worthy of anything more than crushing for my back yard on this hot little Victorian peninsula of mine.

Still the surf was ok.

Jayford4321

23-Feb-2016
2:39:11 PM

On 23/02/2016 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>On 23/02/2016 One Day Hero wrote:
>
>>So grade discrepancy on long routes never occurs in the u.k.? Are there
>>even chunks of rock tall enough for multipitch routes on that damp little
>>island of yours?
>
>There's no rock worthy of anything more than crushing for my back yard
>on this hot little Victorian peninsula of mine.
>
>Still the surf was ok.
>
U claimin ozy status but knot nockn the poms new grade system?
sum on this site might think U need to revise Ur ethics or Ur nationality.

Karl Bromelow

23-Feb-2016
2:50:54 PM

On 23/02/2016 simey wrote:

>I have climbed a lot in the UK and so I am very familiar with the grading
>system, but in the end I still thought it had way too many weirdnesses...

I don't doubt you have Simon, and many travelling poms have had the pleasure of enjoying the brilliant rock climbing in Australia. Some of them like myself on many return visits. However I never hear them clamouring for a change over to the Ewbank system whenever grade debates arise back in soggy old Blighty with it's insignificant rocks, sorry history of rock climbing and bunch of soft arses top roping everything a thousand times before shaking their way up some 20ft blob and punching the air for YouTube. That's because, by and large, what they have works and they understand it well enough to get on with enjoying the game. Just like you do with your simple numerical system. I'm sure if I had been exposed to the Australian system from day one I'd be waving a flag for it too. Now come on, back to that preclipping preplacing stuff. That is far more interesting.

Karl Bromelow

23-Feb-2016
2:56:54 PM

On 23/02/2016 gnaguts wrote:

>U claimin ozy status but knot nockn the poms new grade system?
>sum on this site might think U need to revise Ur ethics or Ur nationality.

I claim both. The governments let me. I feel equally good whichever way the Ashes go. I never have been much of a jingoist.

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