Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop
Chockstone Photography
Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 38
Author
Cleaning anchors - etiquette
Flashyrox
8-Jun-2015
7:31:05 PM
Hi guys,

Just wanted to know your thoughts on rappelling vs lowering when cleaning sport climbing anchors. Is it considered poor form to lower off sport anchors?

Thanks.
Pommy
8-Jun-2015
7:40:44 PM
It's entertaining to watch people rap clean very steep sport climbs with an ATC. Seemed to be all the rage in Kalymnos.
Try cleaning something steep on rap and it should answer your question.
mikllaw
8-Jun-2015
8:38:22 PM
if you have a party of people, lower everyone except the last off your draws to limit wear.
On vertical routes with little traversing you can rap.
On steep or traversy routes you'd best lower.

Be careful when you have been rapping and want to lower; as seconds often hear you say Safe or something and take you off. Your fault and your problem. Discuss beforehand and check - get them to take tension before you unclip.



peteclimbs
8-Jun-2015
9:03:19 PM
In Australia I see most people lowering and I've never really heard people comment on it one way or the other, probably because routes get comparatively little traffic so anchors aren't being hammered too badly.

By contrast, in the US I found that lowering is generally considered poor and routes should be rapped if possible, particularly in areas with lots of traffic and high wear on anchors. Some of the anchor wear at the top of routes in places like Boulder Canyon and Red River Gorge is scary. Plenty of pics on the web if you're curious.

rodw
8-Jun-2015
9:17:12 PM
If they start to wear just put a twisted shackle or two on them...just don't top rope through them.

nmonteith
9-Jun-2015
9:45:43 AM
Personally I think rapping introduces a whole level of danger that doesn't exist with lowering off. Having to swing around unclipping draws or gear whilst holding onto an non-auto locking rap device is counter to my sport climbing brain.

ajfclark
9-Jun-2015
10:22:12 AM
Does anyone ever second sport routes and then rap off? I did that on a couple of very traversing routes in China. Seemed easier than either lowering or rap cleaning.
Howsie
9-Jun-2015
1:06:57 PM
I agree, my second simply cleans the route. Job done!

Macciza
9-Jun-2015
1:14:31 PM
Basically, yes, it it is poor form due to the increased wear it produces but lots of people still do it...
I enjoyed the good old days of carrot anchors which basically required you to rap off, no biggie....
I don't see it as anything that dangerous really regardless of gear used, if you know what you are doing you should be able to manage it safely regardless of these variants, via backups, leg wraps, fireman belays etc Its not Rocket Surgery ....
I managed to rap-clean a somewhat wandery trad route the other day on a Munter on an oval non locker without drama ....

rodw
9-Jun-2015
1:18:22 PM
Lol question about using sport ring lowers off and you bring up carrots...classic Macca.
kieranl
9-Jun-2015
2:17:34 PM
And remember to always carry a rag and some metal cleaner and give the anchors a good buffing while you're there.

Macciza
9-Jun-2015
3:14:51 PM
Lqotiaylol . . . Mention a whole bunch of things and you only read 'carrots' ... Classic rod ....

So what if I mentioned carrots, or more specifically the fact that you basically had to rap off them,
Offered as an alternate perspective to today when despite being able to more easily and safely rap off a ring anchor your typically lazy assed spurt climber couldn't be bothered because it's too dangerous or too difficult or because once you've started to wear out the anchor you can just add a shackle or two and that solves it so just go ahead and lower . . .
Perhaps you didn't understand the bit where I outlined a bunch of ways you can make it safe to rap, even if your not using an auto lock device ?? Seriously if you don't know how to do any of that sort of stuff you probably should just stay in the gym or you'll end up just lowering through every anchor in sight, wearing them out and then you'll have to add a shackle . . . which is just plain silly, why not just put the shackle there in the first place and wear it out, or just rap . .

rodw
9-Jun-2015
3:46:51 PM
You mentioned carrots again so I stopped reading again.
Pommy
9-Jun-2015
4:37:01 PM
I'll have to remember to take an ATC up Way of all Flesh next time to rap clean
One Day Hero
9-Jun-2015
5:01:24 PM
Really popular sport routes should have mallions, so lowering shouldn't be a problem (obviously toprope through your own gear where practical).

People switching between lowering and abseiling is a source of very bad accidents, so be super careful to make sure both parties know the same thing.

Don't trust kiwis! They're poor as over there, hence can't afford mallions, hence rap off, hence will drop you at sport crags where lowering off is the norm.

Macciza
9-Jun-2015
5:23:52 PM
Carrots ... find it absolutely ridiculous that rings revert spurt climbers to basically inept bumblies with such negligible rope skills that they make stupid suggestions for simple non issues .....
One Day Hero
9-Jun-2015
5:34:50 PM
Although I agree with a lot of what you're saying, Macca, it is kind of off topic. I mean, there are areas where loweroffs are appropriate, and loweroffs do wear out, and people do get dropped due to misunderstandings about how the climber is getting down.

The over-abundance of convenience loweroffs is an issue, but it isn't the issue being discussed.

sliamese
9-Jun-2015
6:49:47 PM
As someone whos spent a bunch on anchors, lower away. Don't bother abseiling as i agree with the others that it introduces unnecessary risk.

BUT... do throw in a trivial amount of cash (say $10?) in the local re-bolting donation tin that many climbing areas have. Comes down to the 'if everyone did it' idea. Replacing worn shackles with new is a very quick and easy process that most experienced folk don't mind doing, it's the cost that bites.

So lower off, but chip in the trivial amount it takes to help maintain those classics. Even better, don't pinch the biners left as lower-offs!

rodw
9-Jun-2015
7:38:09 PM
On 9/06/2015 Macciza wrote:
>Carrots ...$&%*^(*69 0&&()&()m $^$^$

All Im seeing is noise after carrots ..... anyone else? Must be my inferior sport/spurt (or however you spell it) mind.

Macciza
9-Jun-2015
7:56:34 PM
Geez rod.... At least I am addressing the issue rather then contributing nothing but noise . . .
I find your suggestion that people just lower through the anchors and then when they are worn you just put a twisted shackle or two on as ridiculous, and simply creates a problem.....
And I fail to see how transferring to rappel rather then lowering introduces so much extra danger, it's really not that different - you untie, reset the rope and then rap or lower.

If there are mallions or shackles then sure go ahead and lower through them, but if it is just rings, then it is probably best to rap in order to avoid wear. Unfortunately the modern convenience climber generally doesn't give a shit, or finds it too difficult or dangerous to rap

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 38
There are 38 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Landscape Photos Australia

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | High Country Mountain Huts | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints