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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 73
Author
Athlete or Model?

ajfclark
29-Jan-2015
8:52:48 AM
I think this raises some interesting points: http://eveningsends.com/climbing/athlete-models-sierra-blair-coyle/
rolsen1
29-Jan-2015
9:32:18 AM
On 29/01/2015 ajfclark wrote:
>I think this raises some interesting points: http://eveningsends.com/climbing/athlete-mode
>s-sierra-blair-coyle/

I've never heard of her before... but it seems she's a climber and model, who likes to take selfies and interact with people using social media, and sometimes gets paid endorsements.

It seems to me that the author is trying to demean her by suggesting that she is somehow devaluing climbing. He also complains her ability is misrepresented by someone in the media, which is strange because the media always get everything so right. What is the author's (and maybe your) problem? That the attention and endorsements she gets should go to more deserving (presumably) males?

Is this attempting to climbing's version of gamer gate?

Miguel75
29-Jan-2015
9:43:42 AM
It's about time slashies (model/climber or climber/model) were honored.

MisterGribble
29-Jan-2015
9:53:37 AM
On 29/01/2015 rolsen1 wrote:
>On 29/01/2015 ajfclark wrote:
>>I think this raises some interesting points: http://eveningsends.com/climbing/athlete-mo
>e
>>s-sierra-blair-coyle/
>
>I've never heard of her before... but it seems she's a climber and model,
>who likes to take selfies and interact with people using social media,
>and sometimes gets paid endorsements.
>
>It seems to me that the author is trying to demean her by suggesting that
>she is somehow devaluing climbing. He also complains her ability is misrepresented
>by someone in the media, which is strange because the media always get
>everything so right. What is the author's (and maybe your) problem? That
>the attention and endorsements she gets should go to more deserving (presumably)
>males?
>

Like Don Whillans......

wallwombat
29-Jan-2015
11:34:53 AM
SBC is a 20 year old self-professed "professional climber'' currently studying digital marketing at the Uni of Arizona. She is hot, wears tiny little outfits when she climbs and sponsors love her.

She has a huge (mostly male) following on social media.

Apparently she climbs indoors 300 days a year and outdoors about 20. She boulders at a grade around V7.

She is a bit like the Anna Kournikova of comp climbing in the states, although that's probably being a bit unfair to Anna K.

Like Anna, though, she makes more money from sponsorships and endorsements than she does from winning climbing comps.

I think Bishharat's point is she defines herself as a "professional climber", when there are really talented climbers out there who have to juggle work with climbing and don't have the luxury to be able to call themselves pro climbers.

Personally, I think she is exceptionally good at what she does - digital marketing of herself.

It helps that she is hot and wears next to nothing when she climbs but that in itself is probably not enough. Alex Puccio, for example is also pretty hot, also wears tiny little outfits and climbs V13. She wins lots of comps in the US, yet probably cant call herself a "professional climber" as she lags behind SBC in the digital marketing game, in which SBC is an absolute expert.

Good on SBC, in that respect. I think she should call herself a professional digital self-marketer who models and climbs. Even in this day and age, it's almost impossible to be a "professional climber" - there would be none in Australia.

NB: I wouldn't even call James Kassay a professional climber. He owns a climbing gym and I imagine that's where most of his income comes from.

ajfclark
29-Jan-2015
11:36:52 AM
On 29/01/2015 rolsen1 wrote:
>It seems to me that the author is trying to demean her by suggesting that she is somehow devaluing climbing. He also complains her ability is misrepresented by someone in the media, which is strange because the media always get everything so right. What is the author's (and maybe your) problem? That the attention and endorsements she gets should go to more deserving (presumably) males?

I don't have any problem with SBC and I didn't think that the author did either. SBC just happens to be a very good example of what they wanted to discuss. I thought the focus was that there is a market segment that is filled by athlete models, people who are not necessarily recognised for their talent (or lack thereof or whatever) but for their marketability (looks, social media following, etc).

I thought they were asking questions like:

Is it good that these people are generally more relatable to the average Joe than your world class, top end athletes? Will that motivate more people to get out and do things or would an image of the world class be more inspiring?

Is the blatant objectification of people ok to push products?

In general, I thought the whole thing was aimed at media and marketing in general rather than SBC.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
29-Jan-2015
12:28:28 PM
On 29/01/2015 ajfclark wrote:
>I don't have any problem with SBC and I didn't think that the author did either.

Yes, though I think the author was stating the obvious.
For example;
>
Athlete Models are not without purpose or function, nor are they undeserving of their status. That’s not what I’m saying here. In fact, you could easily make a strong argument that Sierra Blair-Coyle, who has only climbed two V9s, should be paid more than Adam Ondra, one of the best rock climbers in the world.

&

>Will that ability to nudge the cutting-edge forward eventually be considered less valuable, less worthwhile, and less impressive than having high levels of engagement on Facebook Or has that already happened?


rolsen1
29-Jan-2015
12:38:13 PM
On 29/01/2015 wallwombat wrote:
>SBC is a 20 year old self-professed "professional climber'' currently studying
>digital marketing at the Uni of Arizona. She is hot, wears tiny little
>outfits when she climbs and sponsors love her.

Thanks for the clarification about her, you seem to be knowledgable. I see you've put professional climber in quotes, I assume you're pointing out that her definition of a professional climber isn't the norm and that claim shouldn't be taken seriously.

>
>She has a huge (mostly male) following on social media.
>
>Apparently she climbs indoors 300 days a year and outdoors about 20. She
>boulders at a grade around V7.
>
>She is a bit like the Anna Kournikova of comp climbing in the states,
>although that's probably being a bit unfair to Anna K.
>

I wonder if Anna Kournikova dared to refer to herself as a professional tennis player? A quick look at wikipedia shows she only made it to number 8 in the world... a long way from number 1. She'd probably pass a professional in quotes tennis player. Oh, she made it to number one in doubles tennis, maybe it is better we call her a professional doubles tennis player, no need for the quotes with that one.
>Like Anna, though, she makes more money from sponsorships and endorsements
>than she does from winning climbing comps.
>

So that's why you need the quotes... got it.

>I think Bishharat's point is she defines herself as a "professional climber",
>when there are really talented climbers out there who have to juggle work
>with climbing and don't have the luxury to be able to call themselves pro
>climbers.
>

Hang on, even though you've used the quotes, isn't a professional athlete an athlete who participates in professional competitions? Now I think about Anna Kournikova did play in professional tennis competitions, lets risk it and just drop the quotes when we describe it as a tennis player.

Also a quick look at SBC's website shows she competes in professional climbing competitions surely that also (begrudgingly) makes her a professional athlete? Begrudgingly I think I'm going to have to drop the quotes when I describe her as a professional rock climber, don't worry wallwombat I'm sure you can still use the quotes when you write it, or air quotes when you talk about her.

>Personally, I think she is exceptionally good at what she does - digital
>marketing of herself.

But aren't you concerned that she's gaming the system? Just like that aussie girl with those small hands gamed passport to insanity all those years ago! As long as that girl knows she couldn't climb Passport with a guys hands, and SBC knows she wouldn't be a professional climber without digital marketing of herself "we" (us guys) should all be ok.

>
>It helps that she is hot and wears next to nothing when she climbs but
>that in itself is probably not enough. Alex Puccio, for example is also
>pretty hot, also wears tiny little outfits and climbs V13. She wins lots
>of comps in the US, yet probably cant call herself a "professional climber"
>as she lags behind SBC in the digital marketing game, in which SBC is an
>absolute expert.
>

There are the quotes again, got it you need to win and game the system to be a professional climber if you are a woman.

>Good on SBC, in that respect. I think she should call herself a professional
>digital self-marketer who models and climbs. Even in this day and age,
>it's almost impossible to be a "professional climber" - there would be
>none in Australia.
>
>NB: I wouldn't even call James Kassay a professional climber. He owns
>a climbing gym and I imagine that's where most of his income comes from.

Thanks for clearing that up, if you're a guy you need to be the best but you don't need to game the system to be a professional climber (without quotes). Although its likely to be impossible anyway.

If it is impossible shouldn't we redefine the term professional climber so at least some people can be them? I don't know, how about every climber who competes in professional competitions can call themselves professional climbers... just like every other sport.

Now if we could just round up all of the male climbers we could have a vote.

shortman
29-Jan-2015
12:44:11 PM
^^ That is some confusing albeit thought provoking rhetoric.

rolsen1
29-Jan-2015
12:49:48 PM
On 29/01/2015 ajfclark wrote:
>On 29/01/2015 rolsen1 wrote:
>>It seems to me that the author is trying to demean her by suggesting
>that she is somehow devaluing climbing. He also complains her ability is
>misrepresented by someone in the media, which is strange because the media
>always get everything so right. What is the author's (and maybe your) problem?
>That the attention and endorsements she gets should go to more deserving
>(presumably) males?
>
>I don't have any problem with SBC and I didn't think that the author did
>either. SBC just happens to be a very good example of what they wanted
>to discuss. I thought the focus was that there is a market segment that
>is filled by athlete models, people who are not necessarily recognised
>for their talent (or lack thereof or whatever) but for their marketability
>(looks, social media following, etc).
>
>I thought they were asking questions like:
>
>Is it good that these people are generally more relatable to the average

What do you mean by good?

>Joe than your world class, top end athletes? Will that motivate more people
>to get out and do things or would an image of the world class be more inspiring?

You mean that if a good looking girl can climb I guess everyone can?

>
>Is the blatant objectification of people ok to push products?

Just in climbing or in all facets of life? This is a moral issue then? For the good of the children, less they be tricked into a life of climbing by a pretty girl? Hasn't this been happening forever in all facets of life. Or is climbing different as it one of the last bastions that are dominated by men?

>
>In general, I thought the whole thing was aimed at media and marketing
>in general rather than SBC.

Well her name was in the title and there are sixteen photos of her, but I guess you're right it wasn't about her at all. But if so, where was the insight into media and marketing, and predicting where it might go and what happens in other sports/activities, and what might be lost and gained in climbing by it. I'm not convinced the whole article wasn't just a misogynist crack at her.
rolsen1
29-Jan-2015
12:50:14 PM
On 29/01/2015 shortman wrote:
>^^ That is some confusing albeit thought provoking rhetoric.
>
>

Thanks I try my best
Jayford4321
29-Jan-2015
12:54:07 PM
On 29/01/2015 rolsen1 wrote:
>On 29/01/2015 shortman wrote:
>>^^ That is some confusing albeit thought provoking rhetoric.
>>
>>
>
>Thanks I try my best

I thought it was a "shit post".

Whats with Ur hangup about "quotes" marks?
Is she your "grandniece" or something?

>got it you need to win and game the system to be a professional climber if you are a woman.

I'd like to see you telling that "crap" to Lynn Hill.

>I'm not convinced the whole article wasn't just a misogynist crack at her.

Good thing it wasn't bout "terrorism", "homosexual" an "lesbian" rights, "whale saving" and "tree hugging" then.

shortman
29-Jan-2015
1:00:29 PM
On 29/01/2015 gnaguts wrote:
>
>I thought it was a "shit post".

I was leaning that way, :)

ambyeok
29-Jan-2015
1:15:24 PM
Glad I am not a young girl in todays world where it is no longer enough to be talented or beautiful but you have to be both, and always smiling. She's hot, SFW? I've seen plenty hotter nestled among the druggies and housos on the local tram. Imagine going through the throws of growing up constantly faced with images of some person doing much better than you and always smiling and never having any hassles. No wonder youth suicide is such a problem when personal promotion paints such distorted views of life. She's not going to post a bad picture cause she's after the sponsors money, its blood money.

ajfclark
29-Jan-2015
1:31:36 PM
On 29/01/2015 rolsen1 wrote:
>>I thought they were asking questions like:
>>
>>Is it good that these people are generally more relatable to the average Joe than your world class, top end athletes? Will that motivate more people to get out and do things or would an image of the world class be more inspiring?
>
>What do you mean by good?

Is it more effective if people might find this kind of image more relatable?

For a general population health kind of angle, is it more likely to motivate people to go outside? Do some people find that everyone that is in a magazine is at the bleeding edge a downer because they can't ever be that good?

If you're the one pushing products, are people more likely to buy the product we're pushing?

The fact that she's not ticking top grades might mean she's more inspirational to some people or more effective for some marketing.

On the other hand, the fact that she's super cutesy and the type of images generally chosen could be detrimental. Does it push some women away from the sport? Exacerbate body image issues? Does it encourage leering and other unpleasant behaviour? Promote image over substance? etc

Overall, on the balance, is it "good"?

rodw
29-Jan-2015
1:47:01 PM
Seriously non issue...if she can make a living of climbing moderate grades and syill get out 300 odd days a year who does that affect? Sex sells both ways....your trying to tell me the drove of women who know of Nadal in tennis is because they are avid tennis fans...me thinks not..the fact he good is irrelevant to most of them but gives a good cover for then just having a female perv......but then again when Men make extra cash from looks its never an issue...but it seems when women do it....it discounts everything else they do and put back the womens movement somehow.

She not begin exploited, she in control of her own destiny and making good money for it...good on her.

Does it affect climbing in general in any real way..simple answer no. She is an Athlete and a model...both are pretty broad terms and definitely not exclusive of each other

Eduardo Slabofvic
29-Jan-2015
1:51:11 PM
How is anything this woman is doing different to those 2 guys on Dawn Wall?
Jayford4321
29-Jan-2015
2:42:07 PM
On 29/01/2015 Cliff wrote:
>On 29/01/2015 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>>How is anything this woman is doing different to those 2 guys on Dawn
>Wall?
>
>I can see your point. She's marketing how she looks; they are marketing
>their climbing skills and achievements. her skill set is way stronger on
>the self-marketing side.

I know which one is easier to achieve, so does this mean their marketing failed?
If it was Australia then most would call it tall poppy syndrome, but simey would call it lust in both cases. In her case I tend to agree with him but in rolsens case definitely not.
Wallwobble, lookout, as u r in his sights.

wallwombat
29-Jan-2015
3:29:40 PM
Sorry, I didn't realise that the use of "quotes" would cause such consternation. I will endeavour to use them more often.

I don't believe going in climbing comps qualifies someone as a "professional climber" unless they make a living out of going in climbing comps. Few do.

SBC doesn't make a living out of going in climbing comps. She makes a living out of creating a high profile for herself on social media and getting advertising endorsements. She makes money out of self-marketing.

I'm fine with that but calling herself a "professional climber" is a bit rich and a bit of an affront to really talented female climbers who work their arses off to do what they love and make a living at the same time.




Jayford4321
29-Jan-2015
3:48:50 PM
On 29/01/2015 wallwombat wrote:
>Sorry, I didn't realise that the use of "quotes" would cause such consternation.
>I will endeavour to use them more often.
>
>I don't believe going in climbing comps qualifies someone as a professional
>climber unless they make a living out of going in climbing comps. Few do.
>
>SBC doesn't make a living out of going in climbing comps. She makes a
>living out of creating a high profile for herself on social media and getting
>advertising endorsements. She makes money out of self-marketing.
>
>I'm fine with that but calling herself a professional climber is a bit
>rich and a bit of an affront to really talented female climbers who work
>their arses off to do what they love and make a living at the same time.
>
+1 wallwobble but where are ur quote marks?
I am on the edge of the mantle topout waiting for rolsens likely reminiscent of poo response.

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