General Climbing Discussion

Author	WTF at Point Perpendicular!
Duang Daunk 9-Oct-2014 10:10:49 AM	On 9/10/2014 nmonteith wrote: >On 9/10/2014 Duang Daunk wrote: >>I see a straw man here. >>At the time the rings were being sprayed would you and other spray bolters >>have changed your ways simply from dialogue? > >Yes. Done. I did quite a few new routes on a mix of trad and bolts last >year after the sport bolting kerfuffle. Which is the way it should be if done properly, according to many, though this wasn't the case at the time. My take on that time (includes Mt Kiera, Blueies and Mt Buffalo chops), was that it took direct action by DCA to bring about that degree of change. I think rodw response of >probably not Is closer to the mark.
nmonteith 9-Oct-2014 10:15:04 AM	On 9/10/2014 Duang Daunk wrote: >My take on that time (includes Mt Kiera, Blueies and Mt Buffalo chops), >was that it took direct action by DCA to bring about that degree of change. I saw & heard people bolting to 'spite' the DCA at the time! So I don't think the change you speak of really happened. I think in reality they just ran out of routes/bolts/enthusiasm.
Duang Daunk 9-Oct-2014 10:20:40 AM	On 9/10/2014 nmonteith wrote: >On 9/10/2014 Duang Daunk wrote: >>My take on that time (includes Mt Kiera, Blueies and Mt Buffalo chops), >>was that it took direct action by DCA to bring about that degree of change. > >I saw & heard people bolting to 'spite' the DCA at the time! So I don't >think the change you speak of really happened. I think in reality they >just ran out of routes/bolts/enthusiasm. We continue to disagree then, as I heard it was easier and cheaper to chop than bolt.
One Day Hero 9-Oct-2014 5:45:46 PM	On 9/10/2014 jprockbelly wrote: >So what? The primary user of a national park is the environment. They >are nature reserves, not your local playground. Climbing *does* impact >the environment, if climbing were banned the health of the park would improve. >We all need to be very mindful of this if we want to continue to have access. > That's my point, shit for brains! I'm not advocating for more climbers and more bolts, quite the opposite. I find it annoying that abseiling "professionals" refused to use the plentiful bombproof natural anchors, however it is an acceptable fact of life that the navy will only abseil off bolts. What really shits me is that I could have designed an anchor layout for them which is more practical, just as safe, and uses far less bolts.......and yes, I do place abseil bolts on buildings as part of my job, so I'm kind of not totally talking out my arse.
nmonteith 9-Oct-2014 6:09:54 PM	I always find the concept of workplace health and safety and the military a funny one.
Olbert 9-Oct-2014 6:14:57 PM	On 9/10/2014 nmonteith wrote: >I always find the concept of workplace health and safety and the military >a funny one. The point (Hah!), which is lost a lot of the time, is that the military only likes to be in danger when in a combat situation. People shouldn't die training just because they might die in combat in the future. Not that putting 10 bolts in a small area should be considered 'best practice'.
Olbert 9-Oct-2014 6:19:37 PM	On 9/10/2014 OodlesDownHere wrote: >Sir monteith, you are the No.1 dude, expecially when surounded by fuchwits >like ODH. Good climbers try to climb sports routes without using the bolts. > Theres some great vids of this. It's only fools, losers, would-be-if-they-could-be >and old weak farts who chop. The problem is not that long established sport routes have been climbed in a trad style and therefore should be debolted. It's that long established trad routes (classics!) are being degraded by new sport routes. Shit squeeze routes in between mega classic trad lines should not be condoned. Just because a line can be climbed doesn't mean it should be climbed...though in many cases the only 'line' for these routes is that made by the bolts.
One Day Hero 9-Oct-2014 7:09:39 PM	On 9/10/2014 Olbert wrote: >Shit squeeze >routes in between mega classic trad lines should not be condoned. Just >because a line can be climbed doesn't mean it should be climbed...though >in many cases the only 'line' for these routes is that made by the bolts. Ta da, pretty simple stuff, eh? I only really wish for three things, don't bolt next to good natural gear, don't retrobolt unless there is sensible justification, don't bolt no-star crap just so that you can have a new sport route. You wouldn't think it even needs saying.
rodw 9-Oct-2014 8:38:48 PM	On 9/10/2014 One Day Hero wrote: >, I do place abseil bolts on >buildings as part of my job, so I'm kind of not totally talking out my >arse. Wow I didn't realise your were such an authority ...my bad...but I'm guessing when you place said bolts you do it to a certain code and more than likely would be considered overkill to what you would do recreationally? ..but again you are always right as you always tell us in oh so eloquent ways.....when a accident happens and the coroner looks at what the ADF installed ..if they follow your suggestions they can say all okay because the "shit for brains" expert over there wearing the stupid hat said it was kosher..
Climboholic 10-Oct-2014 8:03:56 AM	On 9/10/2014 rodw wrote: >On 9/10/2014 One Day Hero wrote: >>, I do place abseil bolts on >>buildings as part of my job, so I'm kind of not totally talking out my >>arse. > >Wow I didn't realise your were such an authority ...my bad...but I'm guessing >when you place said bolts you do it to a certain code and more than likely >would be considered overkill to what you would do recreationally? ..but >again you are always right as you always tell us in oh so eloquent ways.....when >a accident happens and the coroner looks at what the ADF installed things..if >they follow your suggestions they can say all okay because the "shit for >brains" expert over there wearing the stupid hat said it was kosher.. There is nothing approaching a coherent argument here. I don't get why people think it's acceptable to take this attitude towards someone for expressing his views with some colourful language. ODH usually makes a good argument. He just cuts to the point in a way that it necessary because the people he is trying to convince are so stubborn. The reason people don't like him has less to do with his rudeness, than it does with the fact they don't like their views being challenged.
Climboholic 10-Oct-2014 8:24:04 AM	On 9/10/2014 nmonteith wrote: >I always find the concept of workplace health and safety and the military >a funny one. As ODH would say, Fuch you Neil! Even in combat it's reasonable to expect everything possible is done to minimise the risk of Australian lives. This type of comment shows an utter lack of respect for those who serve Australia and ignorance to the necessary role of the military.
rodw 10-Oct-2014 8:54:57 AM	On 10/10/2014 Climboholic wrote: >I don't get why >people think it's acceptable to take this attitude towards someone for >expressing his views with some colourful language. I was just taking ODH's lead and actually quoting him.....its his attitude that seems to be constantly the issue...I think hes working on the premise "he who shouts the loudest and is the most obnoxious wins??" ...I think he needs to take a course in conflict resolution 101.
kieranl 10-Oct-2014 8:57:43 AM	On 10/10/2014 Climboholic wrote: >On 9/10/2014 nmonteith wrote: >>I always find the concept of workplace health and safety and the military >>a funny one. > >As ODH would say, Fuch you Neil! Even in combat it's reasonable to expect >everything possible is done to minimise the risk of Australian lives. This >type of comment shows an utter lack of respect for those who serve Australia >and ignorance to the necessary role of the military. That's a ridiculous overreaction. Yes the military does an important job - but they're not on their pat malone there. This is one of the two stock military jokes - the other being about "military intelligence". Lighten up.
kieranl 10-Oct-2014 9:13:38 AM	People seem to get carried away by military stuff. There was a letter in the Horsham paper this morning advocating that army cadets be allowed to take weapons and live ammunition home to protect against terrorism. Schoolkids roaming around with loaded military weapons? That's madness. Where do people think they are living?
Climboholic 10-Oct-2014 9:19:42 AM	On 10/10/2014 kieranl wrote: >On 10/10/2014 Climboholic wrote: >>On 9/10/2014 nmonteith wrote: >>>I always find the concept of workplace health and safety and the military >>>a funny one. >> >>As ODH would say, Fuch you Neil! Even in combat it's reasonable to expect >>everything possible is done to minimise the risk of Australian lives. >This >>type of comment shows an utter lack of respect for those who serve Australia >>and ignorance to the necessary role of the military. >That's a ridiculous overreaction. Yes the military does an important job >- but they're not on their pat malone there. This is one of the two stock >military jokes - the other being about "military intelligence". Lighten >up. I didn't realise people getting hurt was a laughing matter. I think you'll find anyone injured at work would find your flippant attitude offensive, not funny.
jprockbelly 10-Oct-2014 9:22:02 AM	On 9/10/2014 One Day Hero wrote: >That's my point, shit for brains! ha ha, perhaps we need to spend a few minutes in time out until we are ready to play nice m'kay? > I'm not advocating for more climbers >and more bolts, quite the opposite. >I find it annoying that abseiling "professionals" refused to use the plentiful >bombproof natural anchors, however it is an acceptable fact of life that >the navy will only abseil off bolts. What really shits me is that I could >have designed an anchor layout for them which is more practical, just as >safe, and uses far less bolts.......and yes, I do place abseil bolts on >buildings as part of my job, so I'm kind of not totally talking out my >arse. You have completely missed the point. 10 extra bolts (or 100 for that matter) have an environmental footprint measured in square cm. They can be an eyesore (nowhere near as bad a chalk) but their actual impact on the environment is minimal. Climbers are obsessed with bolts, which is a good thing in my opinion. But only really relevant to climbers. For park managers, and the environment, bolts are a minor issue. The much bigger concern is all the off track walking (which causes erosion and spread of exotic species), litter, food scraps, feces etc. I don't doubt that you know a lot about anchors and bolts, and could have done a great job. But this is no way qualifies you an an "authority" on what is best for the park. .......and yes, I have worked in the state and federal government in natural resources for 6 years, so I'm kind of not totally talking out my arse.
kieranl 10-Oct-2014 9:28:02 AM	I'm sorry that you find what I've said offensive. You seem to be mis-reading things. And no there's nothing funny about work-place injury. The joke, and it's a pretty mild one at that,is the juxtaposition of 2 seemingly conflicting concepts.
tnd 10-Oct-2014 9:36:30 AM	On 10/10/2014 Climboholic wrote: >... >As ODH would say, Fuch you Neil! Even in combat it's reasonable to expect >everything possible is done to minimise the risk of Australian lives. So Australian lives are more valuable than other lives? ! >This type of comment shows an utter lack of respect for those who serve Australia >and ignorance to the necessary role of the military. I have zero respect for the military and the increasing militarism in Australian society. Here's what I think. Little of what they do is necessary. Fcuk them.
Wendy 10-Oct-2014 10:09:00 AM	On 10/10/2014 kieranl wrote: >People seem to get carried away by military stuff. There was a letter in >the Horsham paper this morning advocating that army cadets be allowed to >take weapons and live ammunition home to protect against terrorism. >Schoolkids roaming around with loaded military weapons? That's madness. >Where do people think they are living? I hear it works well in the middle east or africa. The Wimmera is definitely a growing hot bed of terrorism. I would have thought now they've sorted out the town hall debacle, it would have settled down, but perhaps if only there were more car parks ...
ajfclark 10-Oct-2014 10:09:15 AM	On 10/10/2014 kieranl wrote: >The joke, and it's a pretty mild one at that,is the juxtaposition of 2 seemingly conflicting concepts. Along the lines of pro-lifers killing doctors, someone getting run over by an ambulance or the old favourite Microsoft Works?

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