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General Climbing Discussion

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Ronny

24-Oct-2005
5:35:37 PM

I'm guessing that 'rock climbing' doesn't feature in the definitions section of the regulations - so it'd be interesting to find out if bouldering came within the activities proscribed by the act. While I think most climbers would consider bouldering to be 'rock climbing' (used generally), 'climbing' and 'bouldering' are distinct activities. Would be a bit of fun to get busted and try this one out on the judge. I kind of get the feeling that most people wouldn't call bouldering 'rock climbing'.

Maybe certain slabbing wouldn't count as climbing either - see comments in Run Out thread - just walking.

Disclaimer: This is NOT advice about what it actually means - just raising (what I think is) an interesting interpretation point.


Nick Kaz

24-Oct-2005
7:28:58 PM

On 24/10/2005 Ronny wrote:
>I'm guessing that 'rock climbing' doesn't feature in the definitions section
>of the regulations

On 24/10/2005 Climberman wrote:
>(2) Without limiting the generality of subclause (1) (d), the activities and recreational pursuits to which that paragraph applies include abseiling, base jumping, bungy jumping, rock climbing, caving, parachuting, white water boating, paragliding, parasailing and hang gliding.

Ronny

24-Oct-2005
7:54:00 PM

Yes, so the question is what does 'rock climbing' within section (2) mean?
Does 'rock climbing' only refer to activities that use ropes?
Does it include bouldering?
Acts and Regulations often have a 'definitions section' near the start where certain terms are defined. I'm assuming that there isn't a definition of 'rock climing' provided in one of these sections.
R


Sabu

24-Oct-2005
8:14:56 PM

i think they would define along these lines: ur on a rock (small or large) and ur climbing it, hence ur rockclimbing!! to them it's no difference.


Nick Kaz

24-Oct-2005
8:21:18 PM

Actualy sabu

>"Rock climbing and abseiling activities involving ropes and mountaineering
equipment will not be permitted elsewhere in the park without the prior written
approval of the Regional Manager"

Is the general wording around sydney, so I would guess that climbing using specialist equipment like climbing shoes, chalk and bouldering pads would be their grounds for complaint, being on the rock can be classified as scrambling which is just a form of bushwalking.


mousey

24-Oct-2005
8:49:32 PM

hey sabu & ronny, instead of trying to second guess what they 'probably mean', why dont you actually go to the small effort of finding out!?!!

Ronny

24-Oct-2005
9:00:43 PM

climbing using
>specialist equipment like climbing shoes, chalk and bouldering pads would
>be their grounds for complaint,

ah, but therein lies the interesting bit...
to a large proportion of the population, climbing shoes, chalk and pads would not be conisdered 'mountaineering equipment'.

in fact i rekon most people (non-climbers) wouldn't consider a 2 move bum scraper sit start problem to be 'rock climbing'.

I know I'm splitting hairs - its easy to just say 'oh well, it obviously is meant to proscribe bouldering, so therefore it must', but that's not the issue. The question is 'does it?'
How old are the regulations? Did bouldering even really exist when they were written?

s22(1)(d) proscribes activities that 'involves risking the safety of the person or the safety of other persons'. Bouldering hardly does this in the same way that the activities spelt out do, so can it really be said that its inlcuded in the definition of 'rock climbing'?

The practical answer to all this is what everyone has already said: 'Nat Parks arn't going to like you bouldering there.' but the question of whether its actually illegal is another matter. (a far more interesting, but far less useful, one)

R


HM33

24-Oct-2005
9:12:51 PM

National Parks actually believe they are supportive of climbing by virtue that certain areas are 'set aside' for climbing. they don not understand the element of climbing that involves exploration and development of new areas.


Sabu

24-Oct-2005
9:23:56 PM

On 24/10/2005 Nick Kaz wrote:
>Actualy sabu
>
>>"Rock climbing and abseiling activities involving ropes and mountaineering
>equipment will not be permitted elsewhere in the park without the prior
>written
>approval of the Regional Manager"
>
>Is the general wording around sydney, so I would guess that climbing using
>specialist equipment like climbing shoes, chalk and bouldering pads would
>be their grounds for complaint, being on the rock can be classified as
>scrambling which is just a form of bushwalking.

yea ok i missed that part!

On 24/10/2005 JCP wrote:
>hey sabu & ronny, instead of trying to second guess what they 'probably
>mean', why dont you actually go to the small effort of finding out!?!!

na im not involved, just putting my 2cents in :P

Ronny

24-Oct-2005
10:45:18 PM

On 24/10/2005 JCP wrote:
>hey sabu & ronny, instead of trying to second guess what they 'probably
>mean', why dont you actually go to the small effort of finding out!?!!

My interest in this is not to find out what Nat Parks means, and hence what they will attempt to prevent. That has already been established - and in that sense this thread has provided ample answer to the original question.

What is interesting is to consider whether it is actually illegal to climb in these areas. For that question it is completely irrelevant what Nat Parks thinks the regulations mean. All that matters is what you can convince a court that they mean, and that just involves interpreting the words of the section.

Anyway, enough from me... no one seems to give a s*** about the actual legal requirements - and that's probably fair enough as for practical purposes it would never actually come to that.
R


DaCrux

25-Oct-2005
12:29:08 AM

On 24/10/2005 Ronny wrote:

>How old are the regulations? Did bouldering even really exist when they
>were written?
Probably, unless they were written in the 1950's ;)


nmonteith

25-Oct-2005
8:53:16 AM

On 25/10/2005 DaCrux wrote:
>Probably, unless they were written in the 1950's ;)

Bouldering has been around for more than a hundred years. Bert Salmon and friends were bouldering/
soloing in Australia in the early 1920s (in NSW and QLD)
http://www.climbinghistoryoz.blogspot.com/

There are 32 messages in this topic.