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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

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Author
Use of the Black Diamond ATC vs OTHERS
pomyrocks
21/06/2008
4:03:55 PM
Hi Folks, I have a question regarding belay devices.

My current belay device is a basic BD atc and I have got to the point where I decided that I needed more options / features as my climbing was perhaps beginning to over take the capabilities of the atc.

So.....I upgraded to an ATC Guide. See pic below



Now the thing is, I understand the basic use of the device but what Iím really looking for answers as to what everyone thinks of the extended features that this device offers i.e. grooves edges / more stopping power, the guide mode, the so called extra hole bit at the front which I guess is for abseiling / lowering off, the setup and use if said device in a hanging belay.

What is the peopleís opinion on this one?

Belaying?

Abseiling?

Weight issue compared to other devices of a similar nature i.e. Petzl reverso 3 Ė issue or not?

The guide mode. Good feature of gimmick?

using said device attched to ones harness / or belaying from anchor points


My current rope is 10.5mm but my research indicates that I may struggle with this width rope which tells me that perhaps I need to buy 9.5mm (I had been thinking about retiring the old rope to gym use only and getting myself another which would be not quite so heavy) for the outdoor stuff

My other choice had been the ATC XP but I got a free upgrade due to mistake by the seller when making the purchase blah, blah ..........but thatís another story. Should I sell the guide and go back the XP or stick with what I got??

Yours wonderingly

JT.

P.S - the nearest thing I can find to this is the Petzl Reverso and there is a video explaining the device and its merits (actually there is 2 so watch both). I have watched this video countless times but now I need the voice of others (see link below for video)

http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=653

Icarus
21/06/2008
4:15:20 PM
Hi!
I've got a Guide, and use it on 9.8mm and 10mm ropes. I reckon its pretty good, and is basically worth
the weight and bulk. I use it in guide mode every time I belay a second up a pitch, and I think its a terrific
feature. Smooth, easy to set up and makes assisted hoisting of the second easy. It can also be used as
an ascender which doesn't chew up ropes. But, the extra rings add weight, (plus it uses two beiners in
belay mode). I've used normal ATC's as comparison, but never a Reverso (either new or old).

Dan

EDIT: for the record, The guide is 105gms vs. 72gms for the new reverso.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
21/06/2008
8:17:06 PM
I use one and I am very happy with it.
It is an excellent device.
Takes a variety of rope diameters .
Gives great flexibility in belaying seconds; esp if in a party of three.
Some of your notions about it are a little off beam imo, ...
>the so called extra hole bit at the front which I guess is for abseiling / lowering off (snip).
... so I suggest reading up on its 'how to use it' directions, which I'd expect to be available on the internet from the manufacturer.

What difference do you think a hanging belay would make to it's usage?
>Yours wonderingly
!!

muki
21/06/2008
9:40:45 PM
On 21/06/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>Some of your notions about it are a little off beam imo, ...

>>the so called extra hole bit at the front which I guess is for abseiling
>> lowering off (snip).

>... so I suggest reading up on its 'how to use it' directions, which I'd
>expect to be available on the internet from the manufacturer.

Definitely off beam there champ, the smaller hole is for unlocking the auto lock function when in brake
mode, you need to pull the devise level to allow the top (loaded rope), to free up the tail rope from
where it's being pinched underneath the loaded rope, this can be done by threading a small diameter
chord (prussic chord) through the small hole and then running it through a biner on the anchor and back
down to your harness, this is then just a matter of lowering your waist (the harness) down to level the
belay devise.
I am sure the thing came with a users guide! personally I just use brute force to level the devise and
get it running, by clipping a small accessory biner (non rated) into the small hole and hook it to my
harness, and lift, if the belay devise is above my waist height then I use the above mentioned method.


IdratherbeclimbingM9
21/06/2008
10:20:22 PM
>I am sure the thing came with a users guide!
... I agree.
When I first read the original post on this thread, my troll detectors started quivering.
I manually over-rode them and decided to reply in a 'giving the poster the benefit of the doubt' mode; which is why I referred poster back to the manufacturers website.

btw ... jt could be referring to the 'guide mode' hole at the climber feedout end of the device.
~> would make for an interesting abseil*>> !!!
(*not)
brendan
22/06/2008
2:57:22 AM
well i just brought a new reverso 3 two days ago and having only used it once so far i can say that it is pretty good (my original reverso has worn to a sharp edge on this trip) the thing i like about it though is the unlocking function using a carabiner to release a fallen second, which is much easier then the methord needed with the previous model, i havent tried but would the carabiner methord work with the BD Guide? they are different in the way they hang from the anchor.

muki
22/06/2008
9:27:26 AM
On 22/06/2008 brendan wrote:
>well i just brought a new reverso 3 two days ago and having only used it
>once so far i can say that it is pretty good (my original reverso has worn
>to a sharp edge on this trip) the thing i like about it though is the unlocking
>function using a carabiner to release a fallen second, which is much easier
>then the methord needed with the previous model, i havent tried but would
>the carabiner methord work with the BD Guide? they are different in the
>way they hang from the anchor.
>

Brendon, the devises are pretty much Identical in function! that means that they can both be used off
an anchor above, or off the harness below, up to you!
Now to answer the question of being able to disengage the lock with a carabiner by hand, well both of
these will and both won't, clear as mud?
the weight hanging off the belay plate is the determining factor in being able to disengage the auto lock
function, same goes for a gri gri, if enough weight is hanging off it then it will not be able to be
released.
therefore the mechanical advantage of the pully running through the anchor loaded with your body
weight
is the quick and easy solution to unlocking both ATC Guides and Reversos, check it out BP
james
23/06/2008
8:47:18 AM
I use my ATC guide on all diameter ropes from 8mm to 10mm. works great on all diameters, feeds nicely, locks easily & raps nicely. I climb ice a fair bit & it still works great on thin ropes on ice (which =lower friction etc). Definitely an advantage over a Reverso because petzl have been forced to make 2 size reversos (Reverso & reversino) for thin & thick ropes. otherwise the BD & Petzl devices function the same.
gfdonc
23/06/2008
12:02:21 PM
I also bought an ATC Guide (same as the photo) last year. I've never used the autoblock feature, nor do I intend to. That extra loop of alloy is just ballast.

If you were me you'd swap it for the ATC XP.

I've also bought a WC VC-Pro as a backup device. It's light, so easy to carry, but performs not nearly as well as the Guide - doesn't feed as smoothly and the wire has become exposed already - i.e. the plastic sheath has separated despite being used very little.

- Steve

IdratherbeclimbingM9
23/06/2008
12:08:13 PM
On 23/06/2008 gfdonc wrote:
>I've never used the autoblock feature, nor do I intend to. >That extra loop of alloy is
>just ballast.

Maybe could have used it when you belayed follower/s on N.O.?
Pulling the rope through would have been quicker and easier than feeding the rope through conventionally, ... given your comments a little while ago on how pumping that was?

:)

pomyrocks
23/06/2008
12:08:23 PM
i kinda wandered that too i wasn't sure so i put the question up on the forum to see what others had to say about this device.

thanks for your imput

JT
pomyrocks
23/06/2008
12:22:40 PM
Hi Folks, thanks for all your feed back. i havn't as yet had a chance to use it. i jut wanted to see what other thought of the device.

i guess my explanations and questions were a little bit misleading / off beam as someone said but i was just trying to understand the use of the device in different situations i.e belaying from the harness vs belaying with the device attached to the anchors

i was a little concerned that using such a thick rope might mean problems but others appear to disagree so perhaps all will be ok.

i need to get outdoors and give it a try out so that i can find out for myself what its like.

cheers n beers,

JT
gfdonc
23/06/2008
1:16:08 PM
I've used it on ropes 8mm (Edelrid) to at least 10.5, and I think one 11mm once.
The 11mm was slow but all others worked really well.

In particular my partner fell off Eurydice by failing to have enough "oomph" on the final famous move onto the belay. Held the fall on one 8mm, but then the gear pulled, then held the second fall on other other 8mm without problems. Don't try that with your gri-gri.

On 23/06/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Maybe could have used it when you belayed follower/s on N.O.?
>Pulling the rope through would have been quicker and easier than feeding
>the rope through conventionally, ... given your comments a little while
>ago on how pumping that was?

Perhaps. Reluctant to learn 'another' belay method, especially one that can "lock up"?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
23/06/2008
1:34:32 PM
It would only be locked up (in guide mode), while the seconds weight is still on it after falling.
Can be unlocked as Bomber indicates above, or in the case of a slab like N.O., as soon as the 2nd regains their feet! (ie unweights the device).

~> I think it would be worth your time experimenting further with it.

:)

There are 14 messages in this topic.

 

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