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Cheating on Big Walls

RNM

27-Jun-2012
2:35:57 AM

The story goes that a friend, getting into aid climbing, was leading a bolt ladder in Yosemite. Took a couple of falls trying to hook past a missing bolt. Retired to the ledge to try again the next day. Later watched young upstarts arrive with a stick clip, and clip the next bolt using the stick, and aid through without any worries.

My friend felt cheated. But it is aid climbing after all.

What do you big wallers think? Is an extendable stick clip the next big wall accessory?

And more importantly, could M9 be the culprit that stole the missing Squid?!

widewetandslippery

27-Jun-2012
5:31:58 AM

like mopeds and fat chicks, fun to ride but you don't want your mates to see you on one

Fish Boy

27-Jun-2012
5:46:16 AM

Cheat sticks on proper big walls can be good. They can save you from bailing or drilling a rivet. Sometimes features break, meaning some metal or a stick will get you through.

The route Lost in America on El Cap requires a stick clip in the rack list.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

27-Jun-2012
9:22:44 AM

On 27/06/2012 RNM wrote:
>The story goes that a friend, getting into aid climbing, was leading a
>bolt ladder in Yosemite. Took a couple of falls trying to hook past a
>missing bolt. Retired to the ledge to try again the next day. Later watched
>young upstarts arrive with a stick clip, and clip the next bolt using the
>stick, and aid through without any worries.
>
>My friend felt cheated. But it is aid climbing after all.
>
>What do you big wallers think? Is an extendable stick clip the next big
>wall accessory?

They have been part of aid climbing since the 16 or 1700's, but my memory doesn't go back that far so it was probably the 1800's!
Seriously the old shepherds used their crooks, and later alpenstocks, to help them get to where they wanted to go in the Euro Alps...

In more recent times I have seen pictures of a team using marlin poles to get gear to a feature well out of reach on a big wall.

A very recent link on this site to the Irish lass solo aiding in Yosemite, contained the fact that she used her portaledge fly pole to clip past a missing bolt, after the team before her bailed, and she freely admitted that being short of stature that her nut tool was her best friend for similar purpose on some reachy segments!
~> ie it is often considered 'normal' practice, as Fish Boy alludes to in his post.
>
>And more importantly, could M9 be the culprit that stole the missing Squid?!
>
Heh, heh, heh.
I try to go lighter these days and maintain that a bit of gaffer tape is a more useful (multipurpose) item to have on a hard aid climb!

I have used cheat sticks in the past, but not for a long time now, mostly due to nearly spearing myself with one that was attached to my gear loop during a lead fall when it caught on a projection lower on the wall...
Later, I decided they are simply too heavy (the light ones like fibreglass antennae don't work - been there done that), and a hassle to take; but more importantly I gained some skills along the way and enjoy getting past stopper sections by cunning and daring, plus these days (my ego has been tempered somewhat by experience), not being fazed by having to back off a climb if necessary...

patto

27-Jun-2012
9:26:25 AM

Ha! Its AID climbing! How is it cheating?

That is sort of like saying that I laybacked the move rather than jammed it therefore it is cheating.

Crazy nonsense.

nmonteith

27-Jun-2012
9:32:15 AM

Everyone does it.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

27-Jun-2012
9:49:28 AM

>My friend felt cheated.

Because the 'young upstarts' out-manouvered him, or (more importantly), because it went against the friends personal ethic?

My advice to your friend would be to stick with the personal ethic in their climbing, as it will prove to be a far more rewarding experience, to climb in that fashion.

The good Dr

27-Jun-2012
10:15:55 AM

Aid climbing is just an overglorified form of cheating to achieve an ascent. Always has been, always will be.

Stick clips are perfectly fine and just another aid tool as Fish Boy pointed out. Whether that is a 5m monster, a short 'helper' or climbing with someone who is really, really fuggin tall (the human stick clip approach), it is all up to you. Claiming that it is somehow tied to ethics to decide to use one is a load of bollocks. That is a matter of your choice of style.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

27-Jun-2012
10:27:12 AM

On 27/06/2012 The good Dr wrote:
>it is all up to you. Claiming that it is somehow tied to ethics to decide to
>use one is a load of bollocks. That is a matter of your choice of style.

Fair point TgD, and my terminology could have been better, however I still maintain that (like your; 'it is all up to you'), for individuals who may give it some thought, that there can be degrees of the mental-games we play. For example, if I choose not to take a hammer on an established aid climb (hypothetical one that hasn't been freed yet, heh, heh, heh), then by altering the style that I choose, I am simultaneously modifying my own mind-ethic!

Re
>cheating to achieve an ascent

The worst transgression that that involves; is denying oneself the satisfaction of doing a climb in the best possible style that they can achieve that ascent in...

muki

27-Jun-2012
9:18:46 PM

Some climbs in the Glueys use a batman start to get to the climbing holds.
the climbers still claim onsight or red point on these climbs ?
so a stick .....big deal in euro some places get the leader to stack two people on top of each other,
then climb them to get to the first bolt cos they don't use cheater sticks.....
too ethical for that , don't use rubber or metal protection (nuts cams) or metal nut tools .
too ethical for that just bare foot and a few bits of string wooden gear tool.
up ump and away
so cheat stick.....big deal.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

6-Jul-2012
12:23:23 PM

On 27/06/2012 muki wrote:
> .....big deal in euro some places get the leader to stack two people on top of each other,
> then climb them to get to the first bolt cos they don't use cheater sticks.....

They have developed it to a fine art.

nmonteith

6-Jul-2012
12:42:31 PM

That was awesome rod.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

6-Jul-2012
12:45:53 PM

On 6/07/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>That was ~~awesome~~ A_{W_{E^SO_ME}} rod.

~> fixedthatforya nm!

One Day Hero

6-Jul-2012
12:58:30 PM

Holy crap, that would be really dangerous if the little girl at the top wasn't wearing a helmet!?!?

simey

6-Jul-2012
1:50:50 PM

On 6/07/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 27/06/2012 muki wrote:
>> .....big deal in euro some places get the leader to stack two people
>on top of each other,
>> then climb them to get to the first bolt cos they don't use cheater
>sticks.....
>
>They have developed it to a fine art.

Definitely one of the best clips I have seen on Youtube.

Makes big pack marks in AFL look kind of tame.

grangrump

8-Jul-2012
12:07:19 AM

I always thought that pom de dalt and anxaneta would be good climb names, having seen a few articles

but videos are even better!

There are 16 messages in this topic.