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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 29
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Grampians (General) (General) (General) [ Grampians Guide | Images ] 

Author
Grampians - Overgrown Paths
Kp
28-Feb-2017
1:28:07 PM
Just a heads up to all the Victorian craggers. The paths to many of the crags are getting overgrown due to the heavy spring rains. Mulines path is very hard to follow. If everyone could do there bit (pruning Etc) it would really help. Ciao
Wendy
28-Feb-2017
2:10:29 PM
The path to Gondwanaland in December was non-existant. The path to Weirs Creek on the other hand was clear as a bell. Lost World was somewhere in between. I'm kind of surprised Muline was so hard to find, I know it's had its fair share of visits this summer. I've been told the Tower track is difficult to follow as well. Van Dieman's area has a lot of bushes in places (and massive orb spiders) but the foot pad underneath is very clear.
marky
28-Feb-2017
2:59:16 PM
Just a suggestion... Instead of "pruning" and damaging the re-growth and growth as it's most likely re growing after the fires. Why not focus on building more rock cairns to guide the way and maybe also tying a piece of colored tape to branches to follow the path.
Just a suggestion that may work?

JimmyS
28-Feb-2017
7:48:00 PM
I spent a few hours with Louis G last season on that Muline path, it gets reclaimed very quickly!
Wendy
1-Mar-2017
9:01:34 AM
On 28/02/2017 marky wrote:
>Just a suggestion... Instead of "pruning" and damaging the re-growth and
>growth as it's most likely re growing after the fires. Why not focus on
>building more rock cairns to guide the way and maybe also tying a piece
>of colored tape to branches to follow the path.
>Just a suggestion that may work?

I hate plastic tape marking. It eventually falls off and becomes rubbish.
marky
1-Mar-2017
11:26:22 AM
I don't think I've ever seen a piece of marking tape on the ground Wendy.... The only way it's going to end up on the ground is by someone deliberately pulling it off which is highly unlikely.
I know it's plastic and yes there may be an alternative material that is bio degradable that could be used.. I'd choose this over deliberately pruning and clearing re-growth vegetation which is fragile to some extent after the fires. We need to minimise our impact on the environment not contribute to it...
Dave_S
1-Mar-2017
11:42:36 AM
The amount of regrowth that would be trimmed to maintain a path is such a small proportion of total park area that it wouldn't even be worth considering. It's a drop in the ocean, and is likely to involve far less damage than allowing paths to become overgrown to the point where people end up bush-bashing because they can't see the path.

I say trim away.
Kp
1-Mar-2017
11:43:34 AM
You can't get through the undergrowth as it's so thick. Cairns and tape are fine in the dry areas but this is super thick, & certainly not fragile.

Edit: Wendy is definitely correct marking tape does fall on the ground over time.
Wendy
1-Mar-2017
12:15:43 PM
Even when the marking tape is in the tree, it is basically rubbish. Unless someone comes and collects it all up once the path is established enough to follow, which I am unaware of anyone doing, it is abandoned plastic in the environment. I haven't been up to Muline, but say take the track over to Vandieman's, it is a clear foot pad with overgrowth from the sides. No vegetation needs to be removed, just trimmed. This isn't really damaging the regrowth - the bush with it's root stabilising the soil is still there. the formation of new paths around patches that are grown over forms new foot pads, damages new regrowth and feeds erosion. Even if you mark out a path, if it involves bashing through bushes, people will go around via any easier break in the vegetation either on purpose or because they get lost between markers. Some sort of trimming is pretty much always necessary to establish a path and is the lesser of two evils. Have a look at the amount of "trimming" that Parks do to establish paths.

phil_nev
1-Mar-2017
12:37:05 PM
I was up there (Muline) on Sunday and I can say for sure, tape and cairns will be mostly useless. The regrowth has consumed the track (Same can be said for the Gallery). You can already see multiple new paths falling around dead trees. The most common sense option is one clearly defined path free from obstructions and cleared of the major shrubbery. This will be by far the least impactful on the environment.
marky
1-Mar-2017
1:39:39 PM
No doubt if the re growth is that dense then cairns would be pretty useless. I was just more making suggestions as to protect the re- growth and limit impact.

As Phil has stated one clear path seems the way to go rather than people making there own bush bash tracks causing more of an impact.

Dave J
1-Mar-2017
9:50:59 PM
On 1/03/2017 phil_nev wrote:
>I was up there (Muline) on Sunday and I can say for sure, tape and cairns
>will be mostly useless. The regrowth has consumed the track (Same can be
>said for the Gallery). You can already see multiple new paths falling around
>dead trees. The most common sense option is one clearly defined path free
>from obstructions and cleared of the major shrubbery. This will be by far
>the least impactful on the environment.

Agreed. Hve been up there 3 times in the last month or so and in spite of best intentions have ended up on a different path each time. One good path would have a lot less impact on regrowth than 6 semi paths.
One Day Hero
2-Mar-2017
2:56:13 PM
Orienteering marking tape biodegrades in a couple of years, so it's simultaneously not an environmental problem and not very useful. Also, around canberra, the parrots tear most of it off in a couple of weeks (what a bunch of jerks!)

People like Marky are the reason why I never really discuss crag maintainance with the wider climbing public. It's kinda cute listening to hippys who prance around in a weird alternative reality; where lichen is magically everywhere but on the routes, loose rock is an abstract concept (probably found in Patagonia), and bolts spontaneously turn from rusty to stainless just by mentioning it on the internet.

Once they start offering up opinions about not pruning twigs in a vibrant jungle of fire regrowth, you just wish they'd fuch off back into magic fairy land.

Seriously Kento, there's probably only a dozen people down there who will actually contribute to this kind of work. I'm sure you know who they are, just hit 'em up directly and save yourself the agro.

marky
2-Mar-2017
3:46:14 PM
ODH, I was just suggesting other options and a discussion. No need to be a total dick.

I'm far from a hippy so before you get off slagging people you don't know maybe keep your opinions to yourself.

Like I said I was just making suggestions and a discussion and yes I do agree that forming a single track is the best option as Phil mentioned.



One Day Hero
2-Mar-2017
4:26:05 PM
I like being a total dick, it's not about need.

If you'd ever tried pushing up a hill through a wall of fire regrowth, you would already know that; a) visibility is about 2m, so cairns are useless, b) walking speed drops to about 1km/hr so visiting a lot of crags for the day becomes impractical.

Since you seem to not know these things, I will summise that you have no relevant experience. There is no point engaging in debate with idiots who don't know the basics of what they're discussing.
marky
2-Mar-2017
5:19:03 PM
1) For a start no one asked you for your opinion and to engage in a debate.
2) Sit back in your arm chair and have another drink instead of getting angry at the world. Oh wait... that's what old washed out ex climbers like yourself do.... Intoxicated keyboard warrior.
One Day Hero
2-Mar-2017
5:51:38 PM
Whereas young go-getters like yourself are out there every weekend establishing awesome, hard new routes.....yet still manage to be mindful of trees (which have feelings).

Ever done a day of crag work, Marky?
technogeekery
3-Mar-2017
1:19:52 PM
marky - being a total dick is what ODH does. There is an "ignore" feature in this forum which you can use - I haven't seen a single post of his for 3 years or so, and enjoy the forum so much more as a result.
Dane
3-Mar-2017
1:55:52 PM
Chockstone is quiet enough without ignoring people... and in this case ODH hasn't been a total dick, marky has been more offensive thus far, although I'm likely speaking too soon.

The only marking tape you can get nowadays is 'biodegradable', and it fades and falls off after about 12 months. Makes it useless for anything but short term marking, and hopefully not an environmental issue, but I haven't looked into what it actually breaks down into.

If the tracks need pruning then do it, but posting in a public place just leads to the above vitriol, making everyone less likely to do their part
gfdonc
3-Mar-2017
4:10:58 PM
On 3/03/2017 Dane wrote:
>The only marking tape you can get nowadays is 'biodegradable', and it
>fades and falls off after about 12 months.

This statement is untrue.
For example some marking tape was recently spotted in the northern grampians that was placed 4 years ago and was still there.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 29
There are 29 messages in this topic.

 

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