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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
All NSW	(General)	(General)	(General)

Topic Date User

Rings on 10-Aug-2012 At 8:41:18 AM Nick Clow

Message

Ok, I can't help myself again.

Last year I onsighted a route at Frog called Separator 23. It's the arete R of Elastic RURP. It's a trad climb with small gear in a diagonal low down, but then the arete is blank until what looks like only the possibility of placing RPs. By that point you are on a ground fall. I have utmost respect for the FAist (who put up the route onsight or ground up) and for the manner in which it had been put up.

I mention this, not to wave my c0ck, but to illustrate that the style of the First Ascent provides some context (for me at least) as to how routes are repeated.

The Rage this Season is not Separator. It's not The Bachar-Yerian, Tjuringa, Southern Belle or Flange Desire.

It's not Toads either. If the FAist had made the choice to leave a bold route that went 100% on gear, then I think that would be understandable and worthy of respect.

That is not the case here, as the FAist placed 2 bolts on the route and had top-roped it prior to leading it. I think the logic articulated by Simey is very relevant here.

> Sometimes on hard/bold it is basically 'saner' to rap and have a quick look at something to make sure you do at least stand a chance and its not suicidal.

You now seem to be talking about rap inspection and (I think) you have previously talked about having toproped The Rage this Season? Well sure, these are ways of bringing the challenge down to your level.

Let me say that if you chop the bolts on The Rage this Season (a climb which, in its current state, can be reasonably attempted onsight or ground-up) and then go on to top-rope it prior to leading it, then (in the context of this climb and what has gone on) I think you are actually on extremely questionable ethical ground.

There would be nothing particularly difficult about leading this route as it was originally equipped (with 2 bolts and gear) after top-rope practice. That might actually be construed as a 'lesser' style of ascent than leading it ground up on the 4 new bolts and gear. Added to which, the top-rope practice would serve to wear the holds.

If you take the step of chopping the present bolts, then I think the onus is on you to:
1) Lead the climb ground-up as it was originally equipped (with the 2 bolts and gear); or
2) If you top-rope it, dispense with any bolts and make it a 100% trad lead.