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Scenario Thread


JoeGray

13-Sep-2007
12:29:11 PM

Alright, I'll post up the scenario thread. Here's one that's stolen/modified from rc.com:

Team of two climbing, on a single rope, on pitch 3 (or 4) of a 6 pitch near vertical, near their limit, route. Leader finishes the rope stretching pitch, sets up belay. The seconder dismantles the previous belay and begins to climb. After 2m the second gets knocked unconscious by a falling rock (should have been wearing a helmet!) and is dead hanging on the end of the rope. You only have about 3m of slack rope at the belay.

You can assume this is not a busy area etc, and the approach is via the bottom of the face. There are no coincidental ledges (maybe the belay of pitch 1?) and obviously you're going to have to do something about your hanging partner before going for help. Also (if you need to) you can assume that you somehow just woke up in this position and advice like "well, I would have done x, y, z, first" isn't going to help!

I have a rough idea of how I'd tackle this but I'm sure people out there will be able to come up with a much more efficient way.


evanbb

13-Sep-2007
12:47:02 PM

Ergh, a tough one. Here's what I'd do:

First concern is making sure your second doesn't die from renal failure. You've got an anchor at the top, tie the rope in directly, rap down to check on him, try and get him into some sort of recovery position (head forward, airways clear).

Then you need to get out. If your partner wakes up it would be good, if he doesn't? You're probably stuffed. Get warm, and hope your wife remembered where you were going that day.

On the 'things I would have done differently' side of things, I would definitely climb something like this on doubles. 60m abseil capability, and you can retrieve your ropes. Tie your dead-weight partner into one end and lower him. Then abseil the rope, which is going to be near impossible due to the static abseil your incapacitated friend is giving.

Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I think you're buggered. I'd untie, solo out and go for help.


harold

13-Sep-2007
1:00:33 PM

Lower him down to the belay. Prussic down and tie him into the belay and take him off the rope. Prussic back up the rope and set up an absiel for yourself. Probably have to do two raps to get to the belay. Then repeat as above. Could either lower partner if he wakes up and get him to tie himself in to belays. Or possibly absiel with partner tied below you. Would be an epic


cruze

13-Sep-2007
1:20:21 PM

Lower dead climber to anchor. Escape belay. Fix rope to top anchor. Prussic down using knots that can be undone under load. Tie dead climber to anchor. Untie dead climber from rope. Back up to top anchor. Double rope over and rap down setting anchors as needed to get back to dead climber anchor.

Retie in dead climber. Lower to next anchor down. Then essentially repeat above till you get to ground. Affix plaque to base of climb. Call for help.

Hardly elegant. Very time consuming.


skink

13-Sep-2007
1:35:27 PM

Umm, he's not dead... yet.

Will P

13-Sep-2007
1:42:10 PM

Prussic down, finish him off (son of a bitch was always taking the best pitches anyway), then do what cruze said. I'm pretty sure what was meant by 'dead hanging' was dead weight, not 'dead, hanging'.

widewetandslippery

13-Sep-2007
1:42:56 PM

Dead, dead weight, whatever, cut him loose and get the tick

hipster

13-Sep-2007
1:56:28 PM

Don't know about this lowering of an injured climber unaccompanied. If he/she is badly injured YOU MUST accompany them in a descent in a worst-case scenario.
For the worst-case scenario:
Tie them off securely where they fell
escape the belay and prussic down to them.
create an anchor system where they are, attach them to it using a load-releasing hitch and un-tie them from the climbing rope.
Back you prussic to the top belay and rap down (twice) to the injured climber.
Use an assisted abseil technique to descend with them- heaps safer to control the patient- you can't just lower your mate down the route - this may worsen his condition. Lowering them only works on a perfectly vertical wall. Learn the worst case scenario method.
Most rescue manuals will cover this scenario. It takes time and practice to comprehend how to do it sequentially and safely. Well done for asking, 99% of climbers would have no idea what to do, and a couple of extra bits of gear go a long way to solving most problems.


Eduardo Slabofvic

13-Sep-2007
2:12:13 PM

On 13/09/2007 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Dead, dead weight, whatever, cut him loose and get the tick

Time for the Yeats hitch.


rodw

13-Sep-2007
2:20:01 PM

On 13/09/2007 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Dead, dead weight, whatever, cut him loose and get the tick

Oh dear, look out adam this weekend. :)

Problem though is you'd loose ya rope, maybe prussik down to him, cut him loose so you only lose a few meters....unless its a mammut, then just cut it and be done with it.


wallwombat

13-Sep-2007
2:36:58 PM

On 13/09/2007 rodw wrote:
>On 13/09/2007 widewetandslippery wrote:
>>Dead, dead weight, whatever, cut him loose and get the tick
>
>Oh dear, look out adam this weekend. :)

Yes, I noticed that , Rod.

We were going to use doubles so it should be OK.

He's had to take a rain-check anyway.


dougal

13-Sep-2007
2:45:38 PM

Lower to ledge. Escape belay. Call 000. Descend to partner. anchor partner. Ascend. Descend. Assess partner. Stay and wait? Descend with partner? Kick self and partner for only having one rope on a multipitch climb.

Need more info -


cruze

13-Sep-2007
2:46:48 PM

On 13/09/2007 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Dead, dead weight, whatever, cut him loose and get the tick

Reading the latest crux, and JC's send of the roof crack, I can't help but think that that is what he would do...


dougal

13-Sep-2007
2:53:42 PM

It's like the comment that SRENE is an evaluation not a checklist. There are no 'you must nevers..' Learn it all of course but quite often protocol gets the heave ho in a real situation. Events unfold and constantly change. I can think of plenty of situations where directly lowering a partner would be the most prudent thing.


wallwombat

13-Sep-2007
3:21:17 PM

On 13/09/2007 dougal wrote:
>Lower to ledge. Escape belay. Call 000. Descend to partner. anchor
>partner. Ascend. Descend. Assess partner. Stay and wait? Descend with
>partner? Kick self and partner for only having one rope on a multipitch
>climb.
>
>Need more info -

Read the initial post again. There are "no coincidental ledges".


dr_fil_good

13-Sep-2007
3:44:49 PM

On 13/09/2007 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>Time for the Yeats hitch.

Erm, a Yates hitch? isn't that hitch known for prolonging the situation and making it even more epic? how do you tie it again? ;-P

scenario #2, you're climbing with joe simpson ... how do you escape your impending doom and his put a stop to his incessant survival?


Macciza

13-Sep-2007
4:28:44 PM

OK Here goes immediate response.
First need to assume a few things to complete scenario.
1. Route is bolted as 'Route is near their limit'
2. Therrefore gear is 10 draws7plates plus each has belay- 4 biners and cordalette, 3 prussiks/3 biners
3 Belay is cordalette -Top belay is a Grigri directly off anchor - Belayer connected via rope
4 Top walk off (hence Single rope) - maybe Grose Valley sort of thing
5 No mobile phone reception on cliff so that rules out 'sports first aid'
6 Climber is not 'dead' - that would however complicate things as it would then be a death scene and
you would have to take that into consideration before dismantling or moving anything

Ok so that did give me a minute to think (but you don'y have that in emergencies - so try make your
responses quick as would be required if it happened)

So he's been hit in the head so probably bleeding or worse
Lower climber to below belay use all available rope -probably need it
Attach daisy as bakup around rope then 2 prussicks from waist to rope and slide down rope
Unclip past gear, reclip if absolutely needed to retrieve gear - just get down fast
Stop above climber - use his prussics for chest sling to hold him up grab his belay gear and quickly
reset belay and attach yourselves -
Assess his situation and respond accordingly.

Now to get a bit more specific -
Climber is still unconscious, no bad bleeding, obvious dent in skull, remains u/c 5 min later
During 5 min you evaluate your situation which is in next post.


Macciza

13-Sep-2007
4:50:04 PM

On 13/09/2007 Macciza wrote:

>Now to get a bit more specific -
>Climber is still unconscious, no bad bleeding, obvious dent in skull,
>remains u/c 5 min later
>During 5 min you evaluate your situation which is in next post.
>
You have descended to the climber in this scenario and they remain unconscious, in fact they will
remain so for the whole time and obviously require urgent medical attention

You have 3 hrs of sun left and rain is expected overnight - no warm/wetweather or bivy gear
3 40m pitches below lead to 2km walkout through bush to 1km uphill walk on track to car
60m rope tied off on pitch above - the crux 60m pitch -
2 40m pitches above - 1 comfortable vertical pitch then 1 easy steep scramble to top, 250m to car
You have the equipment listed in the above message

b1rchy999

13-Sep-2007
5:07:15 PM

Tie off, prussik down to injured. Depending upon injuries, stabilise using either foam / padding from backpack shoulder straps for neck brace and or to stop the bleeding(assuming). Tie off at ancher, prussik back up and rap down. Repeat until get down. Call 000 if possible. Once down assess injured hopefully they would have come to by now and can advise of injuries. If serious then make comfortable (food / water) and attain help (if you could not call 000) or sit and chat (to keep awake of cause) until heli arrives and hope to hell your friend has insurance. If not patch him up with first aid kit from car (if avail) and then start all over again with helmets!!


Chuck Norris

13-Sep-2007
7:41:21 PM

from the first thread and reading responses the only unequivocal thing is that you need to get down a
fully extended fixed line (using prussik or alternate mix of prussik/climb) and deal with your partner's
injuries (perhaps after pissing on him from above to see if he was faking as wallwombat would do:)).
Then to be honest I don't think there is enough info apart from it seeming to be a choice between
getting just yourself or both of you down via a series of raps & going for help.

As for maccas extra more specific details....

On 13/09/2007 Macciza wrote:
>
>You have 3 hrs of sun left and rain is expected overnight - no warm/wetweather
>or bivy gear
>3 40m pitches below lead to 2km walkout through bush to 1km uphill walk
>on track to car
>60m rope tied off on pitch above - the crux 60m pitch -
>2 40m pitches above - 1 comfortable vertical pitch then 1 easy steep
>scramble to top, 250m to car
>You have the equipment listed in the above message
>
>

I think i'd go for the top. After doing what you can to stabilise/protect from weather your partner and
then frig/climb/whatever to get over the hard pitch. Rope solo up for as long as the rope lasts & then
solo the last 20m.

The nice thing about this final part is that you are choosing between an option for yourself - 100% safe
if you choose to go down (and obviously do it right), but leaving your mate to the vagaries of chance/
weather. And the other where if you f'cuk up you'll both be dead, but you are giving your partner a
better chance (still not 100% though).

There are 68 messages in this topic.