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Victorian Re-Bolting. Do you agree with them? 3-Feb-2006 At 12:47:08 PM Nottobetaken

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I'm assuming that people who have voted in this ridiculous poll for option 3 generally are 'fine' with the placement/replacement of bolts and fixed gear in the Grampians - but are somehow not OK with the same (voluntary) service done at Arapiles. Or maybe you just don't climb there enough? Or maybe (like Ronny suggests) - these poll questions are 'loaded'. Stating that you no longer support the NBF because of one particular case (Dialai & Kachoong for instance) is equally hilarious.

Eduardo is entirely correct when he says...
>every climb being different, every crag being different
>and every person having a different idea on whats what. Generalising is
>going to be a difficult job.

...but clearly some people don't find it to be that difficult a job.

>Arapiles may be different in that the Bolting Faggots are more active here
Lets not forget that 'bolting faggots' were placing bolts at Arapiles well before forums such as this came into being. Witness the likes of The Flight Wall, Bolte Gully, Watchtower Face, Yesterday Gully, The Pharos, Skyline Walls, King Rat Gully, The Bluffs, High Dive Gully, the Atridae, Wind Wall, Dreadnought Gully.... the list goes on. The fact that the faggots responsible placed their bolts in 1968, 1975, 1979, 1981 or 1985 (to name a few) doesn't mean that we have to live with their solutions now. Why are bolts placed in the 60's/'70's/'80's somehow acceptable to some - yet the replacement of them in the year 2005/6 - not? Do you think the likes of Moorhead (yes - a bolting faggot) would have placed fixed hangers or rings if he had the technology? The likely answer would be a yes.

If the people responsible for putting up most of the routes at Arapiles wanted the place to remain bolt free - then they should have made it that way a long time ago. Sadly – it’s too late for that.

On 2/02/2006 Zebedee wrote:
>bolts should be placed as close as practical to
>the original placement (no moving them to where they are easier to clip
>or where they protect different moves);
Why make the crux of a route the act of clipping a bolt? Now that’s bloody hilarious! Bolts are generally placed on abseil - but what if you want to onsight the route? Have you tried to onsight Elongate recently? (to name but one example).
>pitons or other fixed gear should
>not be replaced with bolts, this is retrobolting, pitons should be replaced
>with pitons etc. My feeling is that the first priority is to preserve
>rock
You sure as hell won't be preserving the rock by replacing a piton with a piton – but I get where you’re coming from. But as suggested elsewhere – some pitons don’t need to be replaced – whilst others clearly do.
>and the second to preserve the character of the original ascent; sadly
>your safety comes last.
In the case of Arapiles - this comment is valid. But equally valid is the replacement of OLD fixed gear with NEW. As stated before - because it was placed in 1978 - doesn't mean we have to live with it in 2008.

On 27/01/2006 nmonteith wrote:
>NBF prefers
>the anonymous and under-cover approach. SCV keeps public records of its
>work and consults directly
>with the community through forums on this website.

The fact that the NBF members aren’t a bunch of computer nerds who have nothing better to do during the day than post shit on forums (or maybe they just don't have boring office jobs) – doesn’t mean to say that they prefer the ‘under cover’ approach. Some of their bolting findings and replacement initiatives can be ‘publicy’ viewed in the shop window of the Arapiles Mountain Shop – as well as a list of their ‘upgrades’ (anchors or otherwise). To be honest though – they probably have the means to enter into this forum – but choose not to because they know that dribbling on about these affairs on the internet isn’t ever going to reach any conclusions. Take one look at the posts regarding the re-equipping of certain routes (Anxiety/Tjuringa for instance). Any conclusions? No. And who are we waiting for anyway? The Judge of All Things Fixed and Rusty? Whilst you’re holding your breath – the NBF are out there doing the work – and paying for it (in more ways than one it seems).