Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Topic Date User

Quickdraws STOLEN from Millenium Caves 4-May-2005 At 2:23:55 PM Mike

Message

An interesting discussion! I feel compelled to join in. Sorry Jac for continuing the thread diversion away from the theft.

How annoying are gang top ropers occupying classic routes all day that they are not even climbing? Particularly guides who lasso entire crags. Deliberately leaving all the gear on a popular trad route, for extended periods, is much the same; bad form in my opinion. Agreed? So, why is sport that much different?

A sport route that is within my ability to onsight - yeah I'd like to do the thing ground up, including finding the bolts (not always easy), clipping, etc. It's part of the experience. Now fair enough I've very little experience with overhanging routes and none at all with anything "hard". But even climbing the easiest route at Gallery (my max), it's, for me, more rewarding to place the draws on lead myself. If I'm just clipping someone else's draws it feels like cheating, like it doesn't really count as a lead. Still enjoyable, and even most welcome if it's harder than I can climb without dogging, in which case all the advantage I can get is welcome.

However, If I have a chance of ground up - yeah I'd like to not be denied that chance by someone else's laziness. I can't trust draws left around for months by someone I don't know, and even if I could it's blown my chance of the full experience. So I guess, my question to the well-hard types is: does this thinking stop at a certain grade? Like 28 and above or something? Even if you're climbing grade 31, wouldn't you feel more proud of the achievement if it had been ground up?

I get the whole remoteness/popularity of the crag and limited number of people capable of the grade concepts... fair enough. I even understand the "sport is different" / "anything goes" idea. I also can't say I've ever been forced to walk away from a route I really wanted to do ground up due to someone else's insitu draws, so in practicality I'm just complaining for the sake of it I guess. But interesting topic none-the-less.