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new wall for Burnley?

cliffcare

10-May-2003
4:00:45 PM

Parks Victoria is interested in developing a new wall at Burnley as part of their redevelopment of the area around 'Burnley Harbour' (just downstream from the old wall). Under this plan, PV would take on public liability for people using the walls. To do this, PV wants the walls to be accessible to a wide range of people: so there would be easy and very hard sections. PV will provide the 'soft fall' under the walls.

You can see some drawings and a rough site plan at http://www.vicclimb.org.au/pages/access/access.html#burnely

The climbing community will need to raise the money for the holds and the structures. We believe that this can be done through City Link, PV community grants and sponsorships, and perhaps through the contribution of some volunteer labour from climbers.

Jacqui Middleton, Rob Metzke and I have developed the idea with Matt Harrington from PV. We have the support of the local PV office and are now waiting for approval from senior managers - who have to agree to take on the new liability. This will take about two weeks.

If it is a goer, then we will do some more detailed planning, including working out a process for designing the climbs. Jacqui has agreed to coordinate this process.

While it is not as long as the old Burnley, it keeps the same steepness and options for very hard bouldering.

What do you think?

John

joemor

11-May-2003
2:20:49 PM

looks sweet

kieranl

11-May-2003
8:40:11 PM

Very good idea. I like the concept of coping with varying abilities. The old Burnley Wall had merits but it also featured sections that had obligatory long moves with shoulder-damaging tendencies.
A very positive move, thank you. Kieran Loughran

Joe

11-May-2003
9:40:39 PM

Looks good.


nmonteith

12-May-2003
8:40:07 AM

I have a concern about the plywood section of the wall. Would this be a poitential vandalism problem? Would the holds get unscrewed and stolen? That area is away fromt eh public view and any pycho coudl go in their and smash up a lot of good work in a short amount of time!

Other than that - I like it! - good work on the team who have been negiotating this outcome!

Robin

12-May-2003
12:38:53 PM

I think it will be a great climbing facility for all climbers.

I don't think vandals are likely to smash up the plywood but it is likely they may add some artwork. If that is the worst thing to happen to the wall then I think we could live with that and occassionally lash out for a can of cover up paint.

In regards to the removable holds I've been thinking about that one myself. Perhaps if the steeper panels had an access door that was locked then we could screw the bolts into the T-nuts then fix them from behind. A simple solution would be to drill a 3mm hole radially through the bolt then thread a short length of 2.5mm tie wire through the hole and bend it slightly. This would also allow the routes to be changed.

climbingjac

12-May-2003
4:20:22 PM

In an attempt to minimise the chance of holds being stolen, it is the intention that holds will be bolted AND glued to the wall. With regards to vandalism (such as graffiti), I suspect we will be at risk of this regardless of the chosen surface. Anyone that has helpful comments on this topic, please post them so that we can consider your thoughts in the design phase!

thanks - jac

kieranl

12-May-2003
10:34:22 PM

People seem to be really concerned about vandalism on the proposed new wall. Why? What was the vandalism history on the old Burnley wall before Citylink did their stuff?
Was there any? Is this urban paranoia or is there a history to this fear.


nmonteith

13-May-2003
9:00:43 AM

The old wall got spray painted numerous times. We had to scrub it off by hand which was very time consuming!

When holds are bolted/glued to concrete than it is hard to damage them. When they are attached to a plywood wall it is easy to smash the wall with a hammer - and i can gurantee if you put a 'locked door' to access the back of the wall it will be broken within a day. Young punks love getting into places they shoudln't!

Am i presuming correctly that the new wall will be all plastic holds? - or will it contain 'real rock' holds like the original wall?

(removed)

13-May-2003
9:34:30 AM

Graffiti was definitely a problem. Martin and I spent one afternoon with a can of paint stripper trying to get that pink crap off one time with only limited success. It ended up burning Malcolm's knee as he didn't wait until we'd finished to start climbing. Potent stuff. I don't really see how we can avoid it either. The thing you really want to prevent though is the vandalism of the holds themselves.

And in regards to the holds, it would be great to get some of the river rock back. The stone feel of the wall was a large part of the attraction. I'm sure we can "find" some rocks like these in a river somewhere if required (as was done first time around, can't remember the river). A stone cutting thingy could be used to create a flat back to these holds to make a flush join (something which wasn't done). Stone has a better feel as it generally requires greater contact strnegth to be able to hang on - plastic holds allow greater friction with the skin and therefore less strength. Anyone who doesn't believe me should go up to Nowra and check out how hard even the big jugs can be to hang on to after getting "strong" in a gym.

And finally, in regards to changeable routes as someone suggested, I hope this doesn't happen. Burnley never changed (well, not much, and then only when holds broke off) for 12 years and it remained popular to the end. The ability to work a panel was a great thing, and you could measure yourself against your fitness from years ago to see where you were.

Still, all this is exciting news !

Dalai

13-May-2003
10:21:04 AM

The rocks were originally sourced from one of the rivers past Lorne (Wye river I believe). Sourcing a cheap supply of good holds is key. As the panels will offer more for up problems rather than traversing, it needs to have every square inch covered.
As for the wall surface. Getting a costing for the Radwall coating applied especially thick would hopefully strengthen the wall against vandalism. Though nothing can stop an idiot with a hammer as happened with the left panel at Burnley many years ago.

Rob668

13-May-2003
12:25:31 PM

Further stones can be obtained from Cape Liptrap.

climbingjac

13-May-2003
1:09:56 PM

Conceptually, the holds will be a combination of plastic and river rock. We do not have an overhanging cement wall available to us now, so in order to get an overhang, our hand is forced on the wooden panels. We all know that Burnley made us strong because is was 30 degrees overhanging. I doubt anyone wants only vertical walls to replace it!!

jac


Rich

14-May-2003
12:02:08 PM

I don't what ppl feel about textured wall as martin mentioned, but the more texture, the less likely vandals will use markers to grafitti due to them wrecking the tip of their marker pen. Paint would obviously not be affected by this.
Rich


nmonteith

14-May-2003
12:12:57 PM

Maybe we should commission some guys to do a wicked paint job first - that way the wall would look amazing and other graffiti guys woudln't feel they need to paint over it. This is standard practice on many building in the city which have had graffiti problems in the past. I have a few connections with some graf writing artists who would be keen if we gave them some paint!


Richard

14-May-2003
12:52:37 PM

Jaq & Rob, the new wall sounds fantastic - well done.

Regarding the graffeti - I think this is probably not problem - I cycled past the wall last weekend, and it was all clean grey paint - assuming it's been like that since city link took the holds off, that's quite a few weeks / months with no graffeti being done.

If such a clean wall doesn't attract spray paint - a wall with holds maybe less appealing.

Cheers, Richard


Cliffhanger

14-May-2003
1:01:19 PM

Hi guys, although as a climbing gym owner i hate seeing new walls opening, there should be a few simple solutions.

Plywood Sections - think about using 30mm plywood, the stuff they line shipping containers with - it's indesturctable. It will also allow the super-high density of holds you want.

If you use 30mm ply, conventional T-nuts won't work well, so contact RadWall and see if they'll sell you some of their proprietory T-nuts.

Coating - there are anti-graphiti paints that may go some way. I would NOT use RAdWall etc, as they can be damaged and chipped and once that starts, it will peel off over time.

Holds - put bolt on holds on as per normal and put a nylon lock-nut on the back! very simple and cost effective, but you would need access behind the panels. You can also get bolts with "special" heads that require an expensive allan key, so most people won't have access to one. Glue-on's are crap on plywood, you'll tear the top layer of plywood off, with hold attached over time.

Hope this helps, of course if it's too hard, just come and use our new bouldering cave for just $13!

Jac, if you want more help, just drop in - Tim


tmarsh

14-May-2003
1:16:31 PM

Useful information, no doubt.

However.

Do you think that for just once you might be able to contribute something to this group without spruiking for Cliffhanger? You are the only person who posts here on a regular basis who, without fail, includes a commercial message in every post.

You might want to decrease the spam and increase the content just a little.

Cheers,
Tim


The Blond Gecko

14-May-2003
3:37:40 PM

Hey, everyone's got to make a living! I for one am not complaining - the information put forward is useful, and comes from someone with a lot of experience in the field - and as he said, it is against his own commercial interests to help us, but he does it anyway. IMHO the content was just fine.

Cheers,

Tristan

climbingjac

14-May-2003
3:53:15 PM

Hi Cliffhanger Tim, Thankyou very much for your support! We're still waiting on the big thumbs up from the CEO of Parks Vic... which shouldn't be too far away. I'll take you up on your offer of a visit and a chat some time late next week or thereafter (I'll call first).

Thanks again! Jac.

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