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Help a chap out - Jumars wanted.

kieranl

4-Jun-2012
2:01:30 PM

On 4/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Aiding ain't rocket surgery!
It's probably more like rocket surgery than brain science.
p.s. What CrazyJohn said +1


Pat

4-Jun-2012
3:15:56 PM

Done the first two already. Jumared almost all the vertical pitches in Bungonia (underground) in the eighties. Aided my way out through the ogive a while back so I guess its off to Ozzy - what could possibly go wrogn?


Ben_E

4-Jun-2012
4:03:48 PM

On 4/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>1) Go out to your backyard tree and teach yourself to jumar and haul
>2) Go to your local crack climbing area and teach yourself to aid
>3) Go to Buffalo and teach yourself to do Ozy.....then go and do whatever
>route it is you're dreaming of doing

Not bad advice, though there is stuff in Yosemite that makes for an easier entry level aid climb than Ozy (e.g., Leaning Tower West Face).

I'd definitely agree with the general consensus that you're best off just getting the aiders and getting good with them before you go, though.


benjenga

4-Jun-2012
4:21:20 PM

>On 4/06/2012 Ben_E wrote:
>
>I'd definitely agree with the general consensus that you're best off just
>getting the aiders and getting good with them before you go, though.

Glad you have seen the light.


E. Wells

4-Jun-2012
5:15:26 PM

I be in Nowra this w.e, you can borrow one of my jumars. It is old but fine. I use it. 0414328566

One Day Hero

4-Jun-2012
5:48:29 PM

On 4/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>It's probably more like rocket surgery than brain science.

I'm glad somebody noticed my all time favorite mixed metaphor.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

4-Jun-2012
6:47:36 PM

On 4/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Aiding ain't rocket surgery!

&

On 4/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>>It's probably more like rocket surgery than brain science.
& ODH replied;
>I'm glad somebody noticed my all time favorite mixed metaphor.

Interesting metaphor, that I hadn't come across before; however I tend to agree with kieranl re the mechanics of it.
;-)

Mike Bee

4-Jun-2012
6:50:27 PM

There's some good how to big wall hints on Supertopo. There's both written and video instructions from some yosemite gurus like Chris McNamara. It's worth checking out.

crazyjohn

4-Jun-2012
8:22:03 PM

On 4/06/2012 Pat wrote:
>Hey John,
>
>can you suggest the three best books on aiding?
>
>Cheers

Well I don't profess to know much about aiding. I try to free climb. That said, it depends on what your attempting. John Long and John Middendorf's Big Wall book is a good start. If your going for the Nose on El Cap, get supertopo's the road to the nose and probably a really good book to get your head around big wall logistics is Hans Florine's Speed Climbing which gives awesome beta for the Nose route.

cj


IdratherbeclimbingM9

4-Jun-2012
8:42:50 PM

On 4/06/2012 crazyjohn wrote:
>On 4/06/2012 Pat wrote:
>>Hey John,
>>
>>can you suggest the three best books on aiding?
>>
>>Cheers
>
>Well I don't profess to know much about aiding. I try to free climb. That
>said, it depends on what your attempting. John Long and John Middendorf's
>Big Wall book is a good start. If your going for the Nose on El Cap, get
>supertopo's the road to the nose and probably a really good book to get
>your head around big wall logistics is Hans Florine's Speed Climbing which
>gives awesome beta for the Nose route.
>
>cj

I second that, plus here's some more info...

Climbing Big Walls, by Mike Strassman, Jim Bridwell, Steve Grossman, Randy Leavitt, John Middendorf, Steve Schnieder.
http://www.chockstone.org/Media/Review.asp?Action=Show&BookID=295&LimitFormat=

Big Walls, by John Long.
http://www.chockstone.org/Media/Review.asp?Action=Show&BookID=27&LimitFormat=

Big Wall Climbing: Elite Technique, by Jared Ogden.
http://www.chockstone.org/Media/Review.asp?Action=Show&BookID=345&LimitFormat=


Ben_E

4-Jun-2012
9:26:58 PM

Other misc. hauling tips and general motivation in the form of great pics of the captain at Mark Hudon's site:

http://www.hudonpanos.com/

Of course, I don't know if Olbert has actually said what he's planning on doing with his brother. If he just wants to jug up the line after his brother leads Bishop's Terrace then all this unsolicited advice is probably a little surplus to requirements...


IdratherbeclimbingM9

4-Jun-2012
9:45:27 PM

On 4/06/2012 Ben_E wrote:
>I don't know if Olbert has actually said what he's planning on doing with his brother.

~> Yeah Ollie watchagunnado?

>all this unsolicited advice is probably a little surplus to requirements...

Nah, that'd never happen on Chockstone. Pull the other one Ben_E, as ODH would never agree with that! ;-)

Olbert

5-Jun-2012
3:30:43 PM

As for the leader needing jumars, the reasons for seem to boil down to:

- You need one for hauling

- It's good to have your own set up so you dont have to keep switching between the two.

- Fixing lines beforehand to jumar up the first few pitches (good to both have jumars)

My thoughts:

- The leader wants to minimise his weight as much as possible so carrying two jumars and a couple of daisies is a lot compared to one micro ascender (Ropeman) for hauling.

- Having only one set of jumars,daisy chain, etriers is lighter. I don't imagine that transferring them over at the belay (which may not happen on every pitch if we block lead) would take that long - as somebody mentioned, if you mark your preferred hole on the daisy chain with a bit of tape then it really shouldn't take too long. We will be doing popular routes at the popular time of the year so we will most likely be behind people anyway, so speed is not much of an issue.

That leaves jugging pre-fixed lines to start the route. This would mean that we are quite a lot slower in doing with only one pair of jumars as we can only go one at a time.

At the moment I'm still going with having one pair of jumars between us, the leader having a micro ascender for hauling, though I am prepared to be convinced that it takes to long and too much stuffing around for jugging pre-fixed lines and that it transfer over at the belay takes longer than the 30 seconds I think it does.

We have thought about this, we have read the books and we aren't gumbies (not too sure about the last one).

One Day Hero

5-Jun-2012
3:39:34 PM

Yeah, it'll work fine Oli. Don't forget that the leader will also need their own aiders and daisys on the aid pitches. Also don't forget that if you drop a jumar and don't have at least another ropeman to use instead, your life will become a misery.

My #1 aiding trick (which I came up with myself) is to sew/tape an elastic loop into the aider steps which you use for jugging. Makes life easier when you don't have to keep pressure on the foot all the time to stay in the step.

I've always thought that fixing routes off the deck then sleeping on the ground is a bit wang. That whole thing people do on the Salathe where they jug and haul up a bunch of tatty fixed ropes on the first third doesn't even seem like they're properly climbing the route.

Just make sure that you properly practice hauling a full load up a full pitch while you're still in oz. Tweak your system here, and you'll know whether going short on hardware creates any problems


nmonteith

5-Jun-2012
3:46:30 PM

On 5/06/2012 Olbert wrote:
>- The leader wants to minimise his weight as much as possible so carrying
>two jumars and a couple of daisies is a lot compared to one micro ascender
>(Ropeman) for hauling.

Errr no. You need TWO jumars for hauling. One in reverse to stop the bag from falling back down again, and one connected to the rope that you step into with your bodyweight to push downwards through the pulley. At least one needs a handle as you are HAULING on the bastard.

Ever wondered what you would do if you dropped one jumar 20 pitches up a 30 pitch wall?

>- Having only one set of jumars,daisy chain, etriers is lighter.

You need daisy chains to lead with and jumar with! You can't just magically transfer from belayer to leader.

>We will be doing popular routes at
>the popular time of the year so we will most likely be behind people anyway,
>so speed is not much of an issue.

So you guys will be the totally pain in the ass slow climbers holding everyone up with your lack of gear!

>We have thought about this, we have read the books and we aren't gumbies
>(not too sure about the last one).

You clearly haven't read the books!

One Day Hero

5-Jun-2012
4:02:21 PM

On 5/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>
>Errr no. You need TWO jumars for hauling.

Never heard of a mini-traxion, Neil? I do agree that having one jumar makes life easier, but you could get away with a ropeman if you really wanted to.

>Ever wondered what you would do if you dropped one jumar 20 pitches up
>a 30 pitch wall?

See my post above regarding having a spare ropeman for such emergencies (again, I'd rather not jug 15 pitches with a ropeman, but it wouldn't be a show-stopper)
>

>You need daisy chains to lead with and jumar with! You can't just magically
>transfer from belayer to leader.

I'm pretty sure the chaps are gunning for mostly free leading. I reckon the bare bones setup is 2 daisies and 1.5 ets for the leader, 1 daisy and 1 et for the second (using that weird yosemite jugging technique which I dislike). Don't forget that Fantini's setup on Ozy was famously 1 daisy, 1x4 step and 1x2 step (homemade) aiders.....didn't slow him down none.
>
>So you guys will be the totally pain in the ass slow climbers holding
>everyone up with your lack of gear!

Oli and his bro can climb, that puts them ahead of 50% of the seppos who get on the trade route walls over there.
>
>You clearly haven't read the books!

Sounds like a heavy-aid setup isn't the way to go on the Nose if you can onsight lots of gr22 cracks day after day (Oli can climb cracks!)


nmonteith

5-Jun-2012
4:09:49 PM

On 5/06/2012 Olbert wrote:
>- Having only one set of jumars,daisy chain, etriers is lighter.

You do realize that the weight of one litre of water will equal about 4 jumars? And you will probably have to consume that extra litre of water because you will be sitting around waiting for your mate to dick around with his prussics/ropeman because he doesn't have his own jumars.

Anyway - if you want to borrow an ascender off me for your OS trip then I have one to give you! I'd like it back eventually for old times sake - but I don't mind if you take it, trash it and use it. It's already been up a fair few walls and dropped off Mt Thor plus covered in glue from a million new routes.

Olbert

5-Jun-2012
5:50:32 PM

On 5/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>On 5/06/2012 Olbert wrote:
>>- Having only one set of jumars,daisy chain, etriers is lighter.
>
>You do realize that the weight of one litre of water will equal about
>4 jumars? And you will probably have to consume that extra litre of water
>because you will be sitting around waiting for your mate to dick around
>with his prussics/ropeman because he doesn't have his own jumars.

Yeah but you don't have to carry the water on lead.

gfdonc

5-Jun-2012
6:01:21 PM

I think somewhere I still have a grey jumar (the original) recovered from the floor of Buffalo Gorge many years ago. If I can find it you can have it. No warranty expressed or implied. You'll tie in to the tail of the rope, won't you?

I don't use daisies except on things like the haul bag, but I'm weird like that. Still, it works for me.

Pro-traxions rock, much better than using a jumar to stop the haulbag from plummeting.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Jun-2012
7:18:13 PM

Olly, you will likely need a zip line to transfer the 'one set' of jumars between leader and belayer, especially if traversing/penduluming between cracks. ~> This is heavier and more expensive than a second set of jumars.

Also be aware that if you need to 'jumar' with a 'micro-ascender', it potentially sucksbigtime depending on the krabs that you use with it.
~> Likewise hauling with a 'micro-ascender'...

My advice? ~> No matter what system you opt to run with, dial it in on at least a pitch of something half similar here in Oz before you go.

... And don't forget to give us a trip report after the event ...
☺

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