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Chockstone Forum - Chockstone Feedback

Provide Feedback About This Website

Poll Option Votes Graph
Users can edit and delete posts always (current) 24
29% 
Users can only edit posts for typos 1
1% 
Mods can only edit posts for typos 0
 
All posts remain locked in stone 4
5% 
Users can delete entire accounts inc Topics 1
1% 
Users can edit/delete for 24 hours only 39
47% 
Users can edit/delete for 14 days only 4
5% 
Users can edit posts by adding extra text only 10
12% 

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 49
Author
Posts

Nick Kaz
23/05/2005
5:17:23 PM
>it would be possible to have the original text of a message only editable for a certain number of >days, and then subsequent edits available only as an appended note.

sounds like the best one to me so far.

anthonyk
23/05/2005
5:38:51 PM
On 23/05/2005 nmonteith wrote:
>I was just wondering what others thought about people retro-editing or
>even mass deleting their old posts. There has been a few cases of people
>who have decided that what they wrote in the past was not what they wanted
>people to read in the future.

what does it matter? who would look through archives about someones opinions about climbing topics anyway, and who would care?

jono
23/05/2005
8:58:47 PM
it's important to archive opinions as it gives a historical perspective on peoples change of opinion...for example it's important to understand peoples current views on the issues of bolting/chipping etc because one day that may change and everybody will be carrying a hammer and chisel...i for one would then want to be able to read through the archives and find out how on earth something like that ever came to be.

nmonteith
24/05/2005
2:12:35 PM
-bump- keep voting folks!

climbau
25/05/2005
8:51:07 AM
For my mind people should not be able to mass delete their posts. I think that there is nothing wrong with changing your opinion and being able to put your hand up and say "hey, I was wrong" or "I once thought this, but now I believe ......." is all a part of being an adult. And If others can't accept someone changing their opinion then phooey to them.

NB: I may be a bit late, but have been away and am just catching up.

Phil Box
25/05/2005
10:16:49 AM
On 25/05/2005 climbau wrote:
>For my mind people should not be able to mass delete their posts. I think
>that there is nothing wrong with changing your opinion and being able to
>put your hand up and say "hey, I was wrong" or "I once thought this, but
>now I believe ......." is all a part of being an adult. And If others can't
>accept someone changing their opinion then phooey to them.
>
>NB: I may be a bit late, but have been away and am just catching up.

Note also that on rc.com when a post is "deleted" it is merely hidden, it is still there in the data base and can be restored. We don`t delete anything permanently from the forums.
Onsight
25/05/2005
12:23:57 PM
On 23/05/2005 nmonteith wrote:
>... My view is that what people write on Chockstone
>should be kept. If you are silly enough to not think and post something
>that will embaress you in the future then you will have live with it. For
>me it is the same as writing a letter into Rock magazine. It will be imortalized
>in print for future reference.

I agree entirely. When what you write for the public domain is published in the public domain — then you are responsible for what you write — and you live with it. Hell, I’ve had sections (selections) of my business correspondence extracted and published out of context in a magazine’s letters to the editor and also as “news” without my permission, but at least when you post to the forum you know it’s being published.

The forum is more conversational, and people reply more quickly, but I don’t see why it should be so fundamentally different as far as responsibility is concerned. Sure, if we go down this route then some time lapse before things get set in stone would help when people have been really hasty or reconsider their position a bit, or want to fix up some bad grandma, but if there’s also access to moderators whom they can also approach on important occasions then I don’t see a big problem.

I wonder if a positive spin-off from that would be fewer completely inane, irrelevant, and utter drivel posts? If so then I think that would be a good thing – assuming however it wouldn’t also reduce the amount of genuine humour and brilliant flashes of creativity and originality that we’ve seen.

Furthermore, we’ve had people on this forum hiding under aliases (quite a lot actually!). I don’t mind aliases as such, there’s been a lot of good humour and insights coming from a few of them, but occasionally people have used aliases as a cover for launching outright personal attacks and insults. Sometimes the person’s real name has subsequently come to light. Now the notion that someone can use an alias, make personal attacks on others, and then delete their posts should they get found out, isn’t something that I think should be possible.

Also if a moderator has reason to delete something that is potentially defamatory or threatening in nature then I think a copy of that should be saved somewhere.
Onsight
25/05/2005
12:26:51 PM
On 23/05/2005 Mike wrote:
>The question of who owns the messages though needs to be answered.
snip
>… Kind of like creating a document.
>Sure it's in the public domain, but the words in the document still belongs
>to the author. But I don't know.

I think this is a bit like copyright and when you get photos or text published. The author always retains copyright of their work (unless they’ve been so silly as to sign – or agree to - something that has completely unnecessarily given it away!) and the publisher is somehow granted reproductions rights. As far as this site is concerned then I think it might come down to any Terms and Conditions of use that you set out. I don’t see why you couldn’t put in your T&C’s something whereby posters assign you a more general reproduction licence (who knows – there could be a book in this one day).

>The idea that I myself, as site owner, might be personally responsible
>for what a thousand people say on a bad hair day, is not a little bit scary.
>I certainly hope this is not the case! …
I don’t doubt for a second that if someone writes defamatory or threatening posts on the forum then they can be held legally accountable – just the same as if their words were published in print. As far as responsibility as site owner is concerned Mike, I reckon you might want to look at introducing some Terms and Conditions of use that people have to agree to before posting for the first time (or for all of us from a certain point in time). That link from Martin is interesting, check out point 10…
http://www.oznetlaw.net/subcategories.asp?topicid=39&categoryid=177&subcategoryid=290
I think that would go a long way towards alleviating any defamation concerns you might have (mind you, I’m not a lawyer!). Also, I’d have thought that if you had a clause somehow stating that users are responsible for obtaining – or ensuring they have - any copyright permissions for photos or text from other sources, then that’d also address any potential problems there. Oh, of course it might also need to say you’re not responsible for the checking the copyright of material posted, and that if anyone has a complaint or concern then to contact the moderators and any offending material will be removed…

Basically, IMO, I think that people are responsible for what they post, but you need to ensure there’s some mechanism to ensure the responsibility rests with the users and can’t get palmed off to you, legally, should the shit hit the fan somehow.

Finally (and I don’t want to create work for you Mike!), if all this setting in stone is going to work, then I think there should be a simple mechanism whereby anyone with concerns can contact the moderators easily. If it’s something they want kept personal, then they can always PM or email you Mike, or one of the other known moderators, but no one moderator is online 24/7. So if there was like a link at the top of the forum home page which enabled anyone to post to a thread that was hidden to all but the mods, then they could post concerns there (for example, “hi mods, so and such has just called me a *^%$ %^&@~# and as you might imagine I find that personally offence. Can you help?), then the first mod to go online would see it and any mod who takes action can note there what they did. And if something is really tricky or important and needs discussing, then the mods could always discuss it there.

Just some thoughts.

Phil Box
25/05/2005
4:28:07 PM
On that note Simon, rc.com has audit tracking of pretty much all mod actions. If a user is to be held accountable for their words then a mod is held to a higher account.

As I`ve said rc.com does not any longer allow a mod to alter any users posts in any way except to be able to delete the post. This ensures that a users words are definitely their own.

If we go down the track of mods being able to continue to alter a users posts then we need a system where tampering with a users post is tracked and clearly identified. Say I alter your post, I should clearly state what has been altered and why and identify myself so that everything is above board. Of course we are small enough here on chockstone and we have trustworthy enough mods that this has not been an issue. I put it to you though that it may in the future be an issue. If we can alter a users wording then in my laymans view if a defmation action were brought against the user he could use the fact that the mods can alter his wording as a defence. If we remove the ability of the mods to alter words in a post then a user must by definition be that much more accountable for standing by their words. Surely one would think that they would ponder their words before hitting the post button.

We should definitely retain the right to delete though.

nmonteith
25/05/2005
4:43:49 PM
On 25/05/2005 Phil Box wrote:
>On that note Simon, rc.com has audit tracking of pretty much all mod actions.
>If a user is to be held accountable for their words then a mod is held
>to a higher account.
>
>As I`ve said rc.com does not any longer allow a mod to alter any users
>posts in any way except to be able to delete the post. This ensures that
>a users words are definitely their own.
>
>If we go down the track of mods being able to continue to alter a users
>posts then we need a system where tampering with a users post is tracked
>and clearly identified. Say I alter your post, I should clearly state what
>has been altered and why and identify myself so that everything is above
>board. Of course we are small enough here on chockstone and we have trustworthy
>enough mods that this has not been an issue. I put it to you though that
>it may in the future be an issue. If we can alter a users wording then
>in my laymans view if a defmation action were brought against the user
>he could use the fact that the mods can alter his wording as a defence.
>If we remove the ability of the mods to alter words in a post then a user
>must by definition be that much more accountable for standing by their
>words. Surely one would think that they would ponder their words before
>hitting the post button.
>
>We should definitely retain the right to delete though.


The only changing of posts I have ever done is to rename the topic to something that makes sense. I have never felt the need to manipulate or edit peoples actual posts. Disabling the mods ability to edit posts would be fine with me - providing the users cannot change (mass delete) their own posts after 24 hours.
climberer
1/06/2005
7:46:48 PM
I can agree with editing posts for clarity, making them less offensive, etc, but I find it odd that someone would completely delete all their posts - it's like erasing one's existence. I remember reading about someone in the US who deleted all their posts from an online forum, right before they committed suicide. Maybe it's the online version of getting one's affairs in order? Frankly, if I were about to depart this mortal coil, I would create as much chaos as possible!
chris
2/06/2005
8:30:38 AM
Most posters to chockstone are not making their livelihood out of climbing, and don't take climbing or posting all that seriously.
The extreme position of setting all posts in stone is a bit tough for the more casual poster. Being able to delete posts is a big advantage when you see all the garbage you wrote after half a dozen beers at the Blackheath pub last night.
I feel a big question the moderators have to ask themselves is "What audience is chockstone really aiming at?"
If you're aiming at a "serious" website , then set all posts in stone, and you probably should also get rid of Hex and all his clones. But if it's still a bit of fun for the rest of us, then at least give us the option of correcting our sometimes foolish mistakes.
Another option would be to have parts of the chat site open to corrections, and parts set in stone.
I don't agree with setting posts in stone. I think we have to remember this is just a climbing website, we're not talking about world health here!

nmonteith
2/06/2005
8:49:11 AM
Is setting in stone after 24hours acceptable Chris? That would give you time to sober up, get rid of the hangover and delete whatever rubbish you have posted!

manacubus
2/06/2005
9:42:27 AM
Hi Chris. When you email someone, you generally don't have the option of going back later and deleting the email. You do of course have the option of sending a second email apologising, or correcting anything you might have said. Same goes for a face to face conversation. I don't see how a forum environment is any different. If the history of the medium is in flux, how can new people come in and have any grasp of the flow of events?
chris
2/06/2005
1:16:46 PM
I think 24 hours is Ok from my point of view. Thank you for that compromise, which will save me (and others) from interminable embarrassment!
I think a forum environment is different from emails not because it should or shouldn't be, but because it CAN be.
Every medium is different..... that's just one of the advantages of this one (or disadvantages, depending on how you see it).
Personally, I can't see that any of my useless drivel could be worth preserving for future generations.
Let them make there own meaningless rubbish!
I think one of the big motivators for preservation is that some people get offended occasionally.
Perhaps a reality check is needed in these circumstances.... (this is an attempt to say "get a life" in a polite way!!!)


IdratherbeclimbingM9
2/06/2005
2:28:20 PM
I don't think users should be able to mass delete all their posts.
Just look at the 'cutn paste' thread to see what an orphaned bunch of replies amounts to, ... which is now pretty ordinary after its colourful beginings/short life!

If you are prepared to say it then it should remain, provided the original post was within the acceptable guidelines pertaining to posting, ie the forum rules on the front page.

I use the edit option. Mostly for typos and nearly always within a very short timeframe of posting. Anything beyond that timeframe gets a clear distinction on my part like;
>-----------------------------
>Retro edit
>For clarity ... blah blah etc

There would no doubt be a fair bit of dross I have posted along the way that given the opportunity I probably would not post such again; but I accept that I have done it and so it remains.

If someone changes their mind, then they are free to make yet another post stating that.

Personal responsibility is lacking in too many places in our society today. The fact that others stuff it up for the majority should reflect on them, but not punish the majority.
Its lamentable that some choose to mass delete, but I would sooner put up with that than have impositions placed on me because of it.

Leave the situation as it is, as although it may run wobbly sometimes it 'aint broke yet'!!

======================
Retro edit!
I frequent this forum more than all the other climbing ones (probably combined) because I like the freedom this one gives me by allowing me to edit / delete !!
earwig
2/06/2005
3:39:54 PM
Most of the "Find Climbers" posts seem to be of the "looking for a lift to Araps this weekend" type. If these were automatically deleted once the date for the proposed get together has passed only up-coming trips would be listed.

Mike
2/06/2005
4:26:20 PM
On 2/06/2005 earwig wrote:
>Most of the "Find Climbers" posts seem to be of the "looking for a lift
>to Araps this weekend" type. If these were automatically deleted once the
>date for the proposed get together has passed only up-coming trips would
>be listed.

In the back of my mind, I've got an idea to add a "trip planner" section to the Find Climers forum, which would handle that kind of thing. Haven't designed it yet, haven't had time. But the general idea would be to facilitate organising trips, invite specific members who then confirm/tentatively accept, or groups of members or all, outline trip objectives, destinations, times, meeting points, transport, requirements (who's got the stove?), that kind of thing, but all in a structured way. As a means of avoiding the dread email floods on Friday. Just ideas at this stage. Might never happen.

jono
2/06/2005
4:35:28 PM
its funny how with the current system i can actually change my vote on this topic. in that sense there has to come a time when you can change no more. i think the people in support of keeping the current system should vote again...even though it's a contradiction to my beliefs ;)

IdratherbeclimbingM9
2/06/2005
4:51:26 PM
Being able to change your vote is one of the interesting democratics of this Forum.

Scenario eg.
You vote one way initially.
Then you hear opinions for and against and at some point change your mind, so ...
You change your vote accordingly!

Note: You still only get one vote, but if it became locked in stone you would be feeling miffed?

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 49
There are 49 messages in this topic.

 

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