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Author

Double Figure 8 or Double Bowline Yosemite Finish

jaebo

28-Apr-2009
3:35:03 PM

have read different books and both say contradicting information ie that one dbl bowline is stronger than dbl figure 8, and vice versa.

is one actually stronger?

i know that there are benefits with bowline such as easier to untie after repeated falls but harder to check, and figure 8 is harder to untie but easy to check.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Apr-2009
3:42:04 PM

Stronger for what?

Both are way strong for climbing application when tied in a climbing rope with a keeper knot for surety.

There will be other things in your climbing safety system 'chain' that are weaker links, and this more likely to be protection placements.

jaebo

28-Apr-2009
3:44:05 PM

tying in for a lead

some different stuff i've read says that the dbl figure 8 is a stronger knot than the dbl bowline to tie in, whereas other stuff has said that the dbl bowline is stronger for tying in to....

ajfclark

28-Apr-2009
3:49:21 PM

From http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/50/knotrope.html :

IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Apr-2009
3:50:56 PM

ajf ~ the link you provided is broken and gives;
Not Found
The requested document was not found on this server.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web Server at caves.org

jaebo ~ you might like to see this thread also.

(There are others as well. The 'search' function is your friend!)
☺

ajfclark

28-Apr-2009
4:01:23 PM

On 28/04/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>ajf ~ the link you provided is broken and gives;
>Not Found
>The requested document was not found on this server.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Web Server at caves.org

Fixed. The : at the end was automagically appended to the link.

>jaebo ~ you might like to see this thread also.

Thanks for that. Stugang's reply is gold.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Apr-2009
4:27:07 PM

The ajf link is good.
Most of the rope knots were not doubled, except the double sheet bend* and the end comments from that site make interesting reading for techno-types.
>
Comments

>The answer to the question of strength loss is "it depends". In the testing process it was very obvious that it was important to tie the knot carefully, paying attention to detail. By observing the knot tighten down any malfunction became very obvious quickly and resulted in low break strength or a pull out. The joining knots seemed to be the most susceptible. The speed of the ram used was 39"/min., faster or slower speeds may result in slightly different values. It was also found that size and material have a minor influence on the efficiency of the knot. A Bowline in the 2 larger sizes 12.5mm Static and 10.5mm Dynamic were almost the same, 7mm Acc. Cord was approximately 4% higher. The Figure 8 knots were slightly more efficient with the 10.5mm a little better than the 7mm with the 12.5mm the least. A Butterfly knot had the highest efficiency in the 10.5mm at over 80%. The Double Fisherman's Knot seemed to be the best joining knot. Most all of the joining knots required backup knots.

>The most efficient end line knots Butterfly and Figure 8 knots have a disadvantage of being almost impossible to untie after a significant load of about 1,000 lbs. was applied.

>The standard Bowline was selected for the test, but the Cowboy or Dutch Bowline was tested to see if there was a difference. The numbers were almost identical. "

*The double sheet bend slipped and required;

>
Double Sheet Bend pulled out at 3,705 lbs. included a an Overhand knot on bend back side to achieve breaks.

Eduardo Slabofvic

28-Apr-2009
4:55:18 PM

I can never get enough of this debate.

The answer is very simple, people who use double figure 8s have small penises/breasts; while those of us who use double bowlines have enormous penises/breasts.

I hope that clears things up once and for all.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Apr-2009
4:57:05 PM

... yeah, but what are your protection placements like esp. when things are gritty?
☻

D.Lodge

28-Apr-2009
5:27:02 PM

Thanks Eduardo i agree ;p

J Qui

11-May-2009
8:01:36 PM

Penises and breasts...sounds like Bob from Fight Club.

simey

11-May-2009
10:47:48 PM

On 28/04/2009 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>I can never get enough of this debate.
>
>The answer is very simple, people who use double figure 8s have small
>penises/breasts; while those of us who use double bowlines have enormous
>penises/breasts.
>
>I hope that clears things up once and for all.

I'm afraid to inform you that an in-depth study on the subject showed the opposite to be true...

Macciza

11-May-2009
11:19:55 PM

On 11/05/2009 simey wrote:
>I'm afraid to inform you that an in-depth study on the subject showed
>the opposite to be true...
>
>IMG
>
Actually that study was debunked as it was discovered that the snotty little sport climbers had actually
measured their penii when erect and in centimetres - not knowing what an inch was . . .
The bowliners of old always measured it flaccid and with an old ruler marked in inches . . .

So actually on average the flaccid bowliner beats an erect figure-8er by a small margin . . .
I'll try to dig up a reference an post it when I can . . .

patto

11-May-2009
11:29:32 PM

I don't care which knot you managed to tie, you certainly get my respect either way if you managed to tie a knot in your penis! Of course you need additional length for the rethreaded fig-8.

patto

11-May-2009
11:34:15 PM

On 11/05/2009 Macciza wrote:
>The bowliners of old always measured it flaccid and with an old ruler
>marked in inches . . .

If the 'bowliners of old' are having those issues then there are some little blue pills that may help. See you doctor.

evanbb

12-May-2009
8:41:18 AM

On 28/04/2009 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>I can never get enough of this debate.
Thanks for totally derailing this one ES. It made me laugh a lot.

There are 16 messages in this topic.