Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

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danbaker 8-Nov-2007 12:25:33 PM	ecowain, I dont think it is rude, but then again i am an economist....... my view is if they want the business then they should be competitive.... If i can get the goods from the US at half price at the most on a retail basis (including freight and exchange rate) then i shudder to think what the mark up is the shops here in Aus are putting on their gear. I know I sound harsh, but if any business wants my business (not just climbing shops), then they need to be competetive. On service, here in Brisbane I am yet to find a shop with decent service that employs people who know something about climbing (both rock and mountaineering). Is probably different in Sydney where there is more competetion, but there is one shop here in Bris in particular I have had several bad experiences with..... after each experience I thought I would give them another go to try and support locals, but at the end of the day if i can get it much cheaper elsewhere, why not... the shops here in Aus (Bris anyway) certainly have no problems charging as much as they can so i have no problems paying as little as i can... so i don't think it is rude, it is just business, why throw away money.... If the shops here in bris want to make the sale, then the need to be much more competitive to get my dollars :)
userfriendly 8-Nov-2007 12:32:56 PM	Wasting someones time getting fitted in store is rude and just not the right thing to do!! But... I think there is no problem with having a look for yourself because really.. there is always going to be competition, wheather down the road or overseas,and looking at price difference and sizes are the same thing really?. You are right with what you said though ecowain. But aussie stores have one thing going for them... good old fashioned service. rock hardwear for instance, is a gun of a shop too!
climbingfool 8-Nov-2007 1:13:48 PM	On 7/11/2007 Dom wrote: >Does anyone know why it is that some online retailers will ship os and >others don't (talking spec about climbing gear here) Most gear manufacturers stipulate to their dealers that thay are not permitted to ship to other countries that already have distributors.
Dom 8-Nov-2007 2:00:31 PM	We should form a buying co-op on chockstone. Get orders\cash upfront and save on freight costs. Get it delivered to a chockstoner thats known for being reasonably undodgy and distribute from there - everyones grinning.
Capt_mulch 8-Nov-2007 2:09:13 PM	Easiest thing to do might be just to get together with a few of your mates and do a combined order. I have ordered a pile of gear (in three separate orders - which they are now combining into one order - I got greedy - why order a few cams when you can order a whole set!) with backcountrygear.com - they hold the order until they have everything (if out of stock they put an order throught to the manufacturer - if they can't supply an item that was on special they will ask if you want something else that is similar), they then email you with a price (with shipping) and a confirmation of the order - when you send back an email OK'ing it all they then charge it to your credit card and ship it.
seppo 9-Nov-2007 7:12:45 AM	trying on gear in a store and then ordering it from somewhere else is pretty dick. if you're going to buy from the US and not support the australian stores, then do it. just dont use the stores and give them nothing. if everyone does that there will be no stores left. ever since the internet boom retail stores have been going out of business. if everyone does what you do then we'll have no stores left. and its not the australian stores that are marking things up. they actually mark up the same as american stores. its the companies charging them a higher wholesale rate. the US is basically the benchmark of companies and prices in the outdoor industry. if european companies charged what they charge in europe in america, they'd never sell anything. dont ask me why theres this unwritten agreement, but its there. it really is quite terrible. at the store i work at in NYC you can buy anything DMM for half the price you'd pay at the shop in the factory where they're made halfway across the world. just dont try on shit in retail stores and buy it elsewhere. that will be the end of the retail business. and don't blame them for the prices, its the companies themselves changing their wholesale prices.
Capt_mulch 9-Nov-2007 8:57:09 AM	> trying on gear in a store and then ordering it from somewhere else is pretty dick I agree - if there's stuff I need to try on (shoes, clothes, packs), I buy them here in Oz - what I'm paying for is the service (if I don't get service, I don't shop there). You are paying for the SERVICE as well as the gear. I spent about AUD$3500 on back country ski gear at Paddy Pallin's at Jindabyne during the ski season becuase the staff there gave me excellent service - they took the time to get to know me, and what I was up to, and made good suggestions, as well as gave me discounts. I also got free coffee and a chat on the way back from the mountains. If I'm deciding to make a big order of straight hardware, yep, order online from overseas (I've been using Amazon for ten years), but if you want service, shop locally, support the stores that really do give good service, and be prepared to pay for it.
danbaker 9-Nov-2007 9:29:24 AM	Seppo and Mulch, I dont think you quite got what I was saying re the aussie mark up. Maybe manufacturers have been putting up their prices, but you can still get gear at retail rates from the US at around half the price you can in Australian stores - i am talking about the differential between OS prices and here. If it was a matter of wholesalers putting their prices up then that differential would decrease or disappear all together. The shops are there to make a profit guys, and they will not hesitate to charge you as high as they can to make that profit - there is no loyalty. Maybe you get great service down south, but as i said I am yet to see great service provided by the stores here in Brisbane (with people who know what they are talking about). Guys, I haven't insulted you for supporting the ausssie shops, that is your choice if you want to (personally i dont think it is very financially intelligent to spend twice as much here in aus just to suuport locals - but it's your choice), so I dont appreciate the insults " > trying on gear in a store and then ordering it from somewhere else is pretty dick" I find i get much more bang for my buck buying overseas. I understand the internet makes it harder for physical shops, but that's life. personally, i think it is good, if it weeds out uncompetitve stores, then they shouldnt be in the business in the first place, their investment would be better spent somewhere else. To be honest, I'm going to can my membership from this forum. I think that it is far too removed from what it should be acheiving (an open forum for climbers to discuss all aspects of climbing). I have noticed of late the level of insults etc that get thrown around the forum when someone doesnt agree with something. There is a big difference between having healthy discuccion and throwing the insults.
ecowain 9-Nov-2007 9:38:34 AM	Dan, don't be too touchy. It's easy to take things the wrong way over the internet, and people can be unsubtle in how they put things across. Keep in mind that there will always be people who rub you the wrong way, ignore it and then move on. There's plenty of good discussion amongst the drivel. owain.
psd 9-Nov-2007 10:15:56 AM	On 9/11/2007 seppo wrote: >ever since the internet >boom retail stores have been going out of business. > not sure that's correct, in Sydney there's been 3 new outdoors/climbing shops open on kent street in the last year or so ... >and its not the australian stores that are marking things up. they actually >mark up the same as american stores. it's the companies charging them a >higher wholesale rate. Is this right? Very interesting - how can the manufacturers justify this? I'm also very surprised that the aussies wouldn't need to mark up more than the americans just to stay in business given that the aussies would have to be selling much lower volumes?
IdratherbeclimbingM9 9-Nov-2007 10:18:04 AM	In my opinion that is why those stores sell clothing etc, as the real profit is there and not in climbing hardware.
psd 9-Nov-2007 10:25:37 AM	On 9/11/2007 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote: >In my opinion that is why those stores sell clothing etc, as the real profit >is there and not in climbing hardware. Yep I'm sure that's right. Stacks more cashed up backpackers and walkers than climbers around ...
IdratherbeclimbingM9 9-Nov-2007 10:34:10 AM	On 9/11/2007 danbaker wrote: >To be honest, I'm going to can my membership from this forum. I think >that it is far too removed from what it should be acheiving (an open forum >for climbers to discuss all aspects of climbing). I have noticed of late >the level of insults etc that get thrown around the forum when someone >doesnt agree with something. There is a big difference between having >healthy discuccion and throwing the insults. I think you will find some other sites are less user friendly ... This site has an excellent record of moderation, though I notice the factions that divide over whether it is too much/not enough. Re >>trying on gear in a store and then ordering it from somewhere else is pretty dick I think that comment was criticising the action rather than a personal insult. Someone elses post differentiated between going into a store and trying on stuff vs using the attendants time for same. They were on the money imo, because if I were a shop attendant I'd be frustrated by tyre kickers too. It would be easy enough to tell them you were only browsing.
Capt_mulch 9-Nov-2007 11:10:35 AM	> the aussies would have to be selling much lower volumes Exactamundo. The Aussie shops not only have to pay for shipping, import duty / taxes (which we often avoid when doing Internet shopping - sales tax free aswell!), they are selling way lower volumes. It must be great to have a market of 300 million people on your doorstep. But then again, with our global economy, we should have the whole world at our doorstep - and the distruption this is causing to the traditional economy and the resulting consequences are fuelling this entire debate. Viva free speech, viva a free economy!
psd 9-Nov-2007 11:53:58 AM	On 9/11/2007 Capt_mulch wrote: >> the aussies would have to be selling much lower volumes >Exactamundo. The Aussie shops not only have to pay for shipping, import >duty / taxes (which we often avoid when doing Internet shopping - sales >tax free aswell!), they are selling way lower volumes. Yep CM I am with you. What I am questioning is Seppo's statement that: "its not the australian stores that are marking things up. they actually mark up the same as american stores. its the companies charging them a higher wholesale rate." I don't work in a gear store - but I would be stunned if the Aussie's didn't mark-up more than the US simply because of the volume question (it sounds like you would be too). BUT, my question relates to the second part of the statement, do the manufacturers charge different wholesale prices to retailers in different jurisdictions? To me that is very interesting and seems pretty tough given all the extra costs the locals are already facing.
Capt_mulch 9-Nov-2007 12:20:11 PM	> do the manufacturers charge different wholesale prices to retailers in different jurisdictions? mmmm, interesting question, especially as the Internet has dealt a death blow to any definition of a juristriction. You think it would be more based on volume. Hey brendan, you work in a gear shop - any enlightenment here?
widewetandslippery 9-Nov-2007 12:39:05 PM	I think in the Australian climbing market store loyalty is rapidly becoming a thing of the past (as in most markets). The fact is shops like Annaconda that provide little service but lower prices are the stores that succeed. The outdoor market is essentialy a rag trade and climbing equipment is a bit of jewellry for it. Few stores have good climbing service. Some do. I try to shop in those places. At the same time that is out of respect for the service recieved not an attempt to change the world. If I can buy something cheaper somewhere else I will. I am pretty sure the owners of the shops really don't give a f--- about me. Climbing equipment is a low mark up item. On a slightly different note, buying Australian is a different matter. Who are your favourite local gear manufacturers?

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