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Black Diamond "STOPPER" Set. (Sizes 4 to 13) - 10 pieces. Comes with a "free" karabiner for racking.   $109.00
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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 30
Author
#1 & #2 size nuts and RPs.
macboy78
5/10/2006
7:40:36 PM
Just looking for some opinions on the use of really small nuts and RP's. Being fairly knew to the wonders of trad climbing (I'm almost over my total fear of anything but bolts).
I've been advised that the small nuts and rp's in the 1 & 2 range are really only suitable for aiding and probably wouldn't stay put in a decent fall. So far I haven't had to use anything smaller than a #3 RP, but I'm sure as I get into some more serious leads I may have to use the wee ones.
So I suppose want I really want to find out is, is this advise accurate and what are the smallest pieces people really trust?
Forgive me if I sound like a total blouse.

Eduardo Slabofvic
5/10/2006
7:56:16 PM
If I were posed with the choice of either putting in a 1 or a 2 RP or nothing, then I would put in the RP. If I
were posed with the choice of putting in my No.8 Stopper or a 1 or 2 RP, then I would put in my No.8
Stopper.

Not all placements are the same, and not all rock is the same. A small RP at Araps is way better than the
same size in the Gramps.

When I put in small wires, I usually try to put in a whole bunch of them. No. 1 and 2 wires and 2 RPís
have held me in the past, and I hope they continue to do so. I donít recall taking a fall on a 1RP.
macboy78
5/10/2006
8:03:01 PM
agreed, that something is better than nothing.
Robin
5/10/2006
8:19:18 PM
My experience is that a #3RP held a 7m fall and a #1RP failed on a 1m fall. Haven't fallen on a #2 but I wouldn't trust anything smaller than a 3. Also have seen a new micro wire snap.

Chuck Norris
5/10/2006
8:36:22 PM
The only piece of gear i've ever broken is two #0RPs in the same placement after repeated small falls -
they broke cos the wires were scraping on an edge. That said i'd never trust a zero. If the placement is
bomber and the wire sits cleanly the #1 and #2 RPs are probably better than you fear. What is more likely
is the brass (or whatever it is) will distort and pull out of the placement if it doesn't sit well - and that
could happen for any size RP.

Knowing when its safer to be bold, or bolder to be safe is more likely to keep you alive rather than the
equipment that you use to assist you in getting there and if you are worried whether a piece is going to
hold the chances are you should just place it and a bit.
chalkischeap
5/10/2006
8:57:14 PM
Interesting question, big gear is best of course but my own rules of thumb are:

Wires down to Rock 2 and RP5 100% confidence in a good placement.
Rock 1 and RP3 80%
RP2 60%
RP1 30%
RP0 donít own, would consider as bodyweight only, rather have a skyhook.

Lots of variables come into play such as placement quality, rock type, body weight, rope type, amount of rope out, dynamic belay etc.

In practice I have found that RP2s and RP1s have held on most occasions. But with only 30% to 60% reliability you want some backup lower down. Climbs that rely fully on these sizes are dangerous and usually have 2 or 3 extra grades added above their physical requirement.
macboy78
5/10/2006
9:05:04 PM
cool, the smallest i would comfortably use is a 3 RP, so I think I'll try to stay above that unless I absolutely have no other choice. as well as not over committing myself.
cheers

cruze
5/10/2006
9:24:06 PM
If you are worried about either the strength of the piece or the strength of the rock, try to place as many pieces as you can and equalise away!! That will lessen the impact on any one piece. The one thing you can almost guarantee is you wont be filling up any holds with gear...

Phil Box
6/10/2006
7:38:44 AM
Stack those RPs. If you can fit one in there then you can probably fit 3. I've watched Duncan slip 3 and even 4 RPs into the same slot and then simply clip all of the loops through the same quickdraw biner. Works a treat.
gfdonc
6/10/2006
12:57:03 PM
I love equalising two pieces with a sliding X. Doesn't happen very often, but sometimes memorable. (I'm talking runners, not a belay). Jamming in multiple pieces sounds fine, but halving the impact force has gotta be better.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
10/10/2006
11:54:35 AM
On 5/10/2006 macboy78 wrote:
>what are the smallest pieces people really trust?

As a generalisation I trust anything in nuts the size of my thumbnail (or bigger) if it is well placed in good rock. This translates to about a #5 BD stopper size.

It is a rare freeclimb (for me) that requires anything smaller than #3 RP as pro; ... but I am a total blouse (for grades), so that's OKI !!
As others have mentioned, doubling up (or more) of pro is often a good idea.

>is this advise accurate
caveat emptor ~
... it is a website after all.

skink
10/10/2006
5:08:57 PM
I took a short fall on a #2 RP on Kamikaze at Araps (followed the deadend going slightly left, instead of committing and going straight up - anyone else fallen into this trap?).

It held fine and looking at it afterwards, there was a slight depression in the brass on the one side, but it wasn't mashed. Was a short fall (piece at my feet) and I am a lightweight, but not much rope in the system and the belayer said the weight came on him pretty hard. So that upped my faith in RPs quite a bit (I did have the seams below the RP sewn up with quite a few pieces :-).

I reckon when faced with having to place small pro, put in a few pieces - I reckon when they blow its mainly cos at the smaller scale tolerances are pretty fine and just crushing a few crystals in the rock can change what felt bomber when you yanked it, to a blowout when the big load comes. But if you place a few pieces you stack the odds in your favour.

Small gear is ultra light and low bulk, so I tend to carry lots of small pieces if things look like they will have a thin section - the smallest RPs, the tiny HB offsets, all the sub #1 nuts. When faced with no other option but a small piece, I'll put in at least two, maybe even three or four if I can find it. Don't bother too much with equalising - just clip pieces together if they are close enough or use separate quickdraws.

I also reckon longer trad-style quickdraws/runners on small pieces are important, cos they are more likely to get pulled up and out, being so light and with little surface contact, and especially with brass, which doesn't bite as nicely as alloy when you set the piece. Also long slings should mean less outward pull if you fall on them.

whoo hoo all this talk is getting me all excited, six weeks to go and I'll be standing at the bottom of XI looking up at that thin pro waiting for me... shaking in me boots....

gordoste
10/10/2006
5:23:14 PM
RPs I haven't used before. Small nuts are great but MUST be placed really well and firmly seated. I trust them for normal falls but won't run it out above them as opposed to larger gear.
mockmockmock
11/10/2006
9:52:47 PM
There used to be a saying but I don't remember how it goes.

" Friends don't let friends climb on friends " or
" Friends don't let friends climb on RP's "

either way

Ralph

Eduardo Slabofvic
12/10/2006
9:06:45 AM
Friends don't let friends climb slabs.
One Day Hero
12/10/2006
5:11:38 PM
I've fallen on a #1 RP, lot of rope out though, soft fall. Belayed a big fall on a #1 rock, seemed fine. I'd be comfy on #2 rock on up in granite or quartzite, the softer the rock, the bigger stuff wants to be.

adski
12/10/2006
8:25:43 PM
My first fall on gear was on a ground up FA onto a #2 nut at Buladelah, it held of course but when I climbed back up to it a #3 fit perfectly :-)

Small is good but harder to get out sometimes, just think back to the last time your < 5ft 6in friend went out dancing.
Andaroo
13/10/2006
5:34:08 PM
When I did my lead course they called the smallest RP's Physcological protection.. If your ever in Margaret River in WA Check out KGB (26) (there's a pic of Stevan Glowacs in Rock for some advert) Its a roof about 5m up and maybe 5m wide, There's prob a dozen RP's stuck in there minus the cable... Wouldnt imagine the fall would have been that great from just hanging under the roof... :-)
My advise... Place it if there's nothing else but get something else in as soon as poss..

Cheers

cruze
14/10/2006
7:54:25 AM
I also keep the smallest gear (the aid stuff) on my rack because it weighs nothing and can be useful in opposing fiddly gear for upwards pull to keep it in place. Only happened a few times and never fell on those pieces so I am not making any promises...

foreverabumbly
15/10/2006
7:45:01 PM
im not sure, but i have heard that rp's and the smallest C3 cam arn't rated for lead climbing, and are only recommended for aid climbing. They dont have a CE stamp on them

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 30
There are 30 messages in this topic.

 

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