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Daisy Chain Failure


belayslave

3-Jul-2006
8:31:54 PM

facinating post dave!
hmm... Phil - My understanding is spectra breaks quicker under dynamic load due to it's lower melting
point. is that correct?

I have one of the Vertical Nylon daisy chains which i like better then my (dave i have one too!) pink
spectra daisy. The tacks seem thicker. I've always used my daisy as in picture 2, however if there's ever
going to be a direct force on to it, i.e. belaying a seconder, i'll always have another attachment to the
power point.

Something i've used in industrial work is a 'lanyard' of 10.5mm rope, no longer then arm length attached
tied directly to the harness. Then if we need to adjust the length of it we used a croll or such device
attached from our harness to the lanyard. What do you think of this method Phil? I've never used this
method in a belay type set up, however, if it was used in this method would the camming motion of the
croll onto the rope cause some problems (i.e. ripping the rope to shreads!)??


Phil Box

4-Jul-2006
7:55:50 AM

On 3/07/2006 belayslave wrote:
>facinating post dave!
>hmm... Phil - My understanding is spectra breaks quicker under dynamic
>load due to it's lower melting
>point. is that correct?

I am not going to comment on this as I am not a materials scientist, I'll leave this to others. What I will say however is that it doesn't sound right.

>Something i've used in industrial work is a 'lanyard' of 10.5mm rope,
>no longer then arm length attached
>tied directly to the harness. Then if we need to adjust the length of
>it we used a croll or such device
>attached from our harness to the lanyard. What do you think of this method
>Phil? I've never used this
>method in a belay type set up, however, if it was used in this method
>would the camming motion of the
>croll onto the rope cause some problems (i.e. ripping the rope to shreads!)??

The croll has much longer teeth than the SRT ascenders. The Croll is designed to really bite into a rope. Yes it can shred the sheath of a rope. I can't say with certainty whether it will chop a rope though. I do know that the SRT ascender is designed to shred the sheath at around 750 kilos. This is a good thing, scary yes but a good thing nonetheless. It limits forces transferred to the human body. The rope inside the sheath remains intact thus preserving ones vital lifeline. I can't say whether the Croll is designed with similar safety measures in mind.

I reckon that a short lanyard is not that necessary in fact most climbers simply would not take it up with them even if it were mandatory. It is just another piece of gear that adds weight. Keep the lanyards for industrial work.

Using the rope at belays is far simpler, it is the strongest and most elastic thing you can use. If you get the length of your tie in wrong then you simply add an alpine butterfly knot and tie in short, what could be simpler.

ant

4-Jul-2006
2:39:12 PM

On 4/07/2006 Phil Box wrote:
>I reckon that a short lanyard is not that necessary in fact most climbers
>simply would not take it up with them even if it were mandatory. It is
>just another piece of gear that adds weight. Keep the lanyards for industrial
>work.
>
>Using the rope at belays is far simpler, it is the strongest and most
>elastic thing you can use. If you get the length of your tie in wrong then
>you simply add an alpine butterfly knot and tie in short, what could be
>simpler.

You can't beat a daisy chain or the slightly heavier Metolius PAS when rapping off a multi-pitch route or mountain.


belayslave

4-Jul-2006
2:54:20 PM

On 4/07/2006 Phil Box wrote:
>Using the rope at belays is far simpler, it is the strongest and most
>elastic thing you can use. If you get the length of your tie in wrong then
>you simply add an alpine butterfly knot and tie in short, what could be
>simpler.

Agreed, was just asking questions out of interests sake. Plus i like toys and new techniques as much as
the next gear freak. I have Metolius PAS but haven't used it yet.


gordoste

4-Jul-2006
3:49:07 PM

Would there be anything wrong with using a daisy-like device made of dynamic rope with a few alpine butterflies to attach to the anchor?? It'd probably be cheaper too.

dave

4-Jul-2006
8:05:23 PM

On 4/07/2006 gordoste wrote:
>Would there be anything wrong with using a daisy-like device made of dynamic
>rope with a few alpine butterflies to attach to the anchor?? It'd probably
>be cheaper too.

This would work fine i reckon (as would a daisy made from knotted tape) however it would be a very bulky piece of gear to carry round...


Phil Box

5-Jul-2006
8:33:39 AM

Don't get me wrong guys, I too use a daisy chain on occasion. I'm merely pointing out the limitations and the potential for things to go bad if they are used incorrectly and a fall on them happens.

There are 27 messages in this topic.