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Poll Option Votes Graph
Above 17
24% 
Below 36
51% 
I don't use an autolock system while abseiling 18
25% 

 Page 3 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 77
Author
Prusik while abseiling - above or below device?

White Trash
1/08/2012
7:54:51 PM
On 1/08/2012 davidn wrote:
>Is this actually possible with most harnesses? I thought most had the
>big flap of stitched back webbing at the end which would be almost impossible
>to suck through the clips.

Give us a picture or we wont bileave you have a harness.
armstp
1/08/2012
8:19:42 PM
The only time I have ever used a prusik for abseilling was off of Navarre, the knot was about 18 inches above the ATC, and exactly the same thing happened to me as happened to that woman in the photos. It was horrendous and put me off the idea of prusik back ups for life. I had to turn just about upside down and throw a leg back up over the overhang and semi mantle/grovel back up to get the prussik free. Took a few turns of the trailling ends of the ropes around my thigh first [an ancient technique few modern climbers seem to be familiar with].

BlankSlab
2/08/2012
9:09:18 AM
Im surprised to see the numbers in the poll. Just always thought prusik abpve was logical.
Heading out tomorrow up the mountains so i will have to give Wallwombats little picture a go. Can't hurt to have another method of doing things

hangdog
2/08/2012
9:35:40 AM
I am surprised by how many people use any form of prussic back up. And then can't rap through an overhang without messing it up!

hangdog
2/08/2012
9:41:35 AM
Why use a prussic self belay anyway. Why don't you belay them down. Once down they can "fireman" belay the others down. No need for any self belay.
Or just rap down carefully and don't let go of the rope.

deadbudgy
2/08/2012
9:50:56 AM
On 2/08/2012 hangdog wrote:
>
>Or just rap down carefully and don't let go of the rope.

I think you need to do an experiment. Abseil half way down a wall of your choice and then get your mates to drop rocks on you until one hits you just so as to break your hand or knock you out. Let us know what happens.

trog
2/08/2012
10:13:14 AM
Ending up on the ground (even heavily damaged) isn't necessarily always the worst outcome in every situation, (or hanging on your knot (you did knot the ends right).. although that undermines the point I'm making) - Plenty of times someone knocked out on rope could become a more serious problem than cratering at speed on the rope.

I often use a prussic backup, but it is not always appropriate (eg canyoning - ab'ing through water backups are generally a bad idea)
gfdonc
2/08/2012
10:13:15 AM
I don't use one.
I'd rather keep it all simple and concentrate on making sure I'm clipped in properly and having both hands free if needed to hold the rope.
If there's anything dodgy I'll either tie in to the rope a few metres below (or just make a knot).
kieranl
2/08/2012
10:52:21 AM
I don't use a prusik backup either. I knot the ends of the rope and I weight the abseil rope before unclipping from the anchor.
For some perspective on the critical danger points, I am aware of 4 rescues at Arapiles as a result of abseil incidents. 1 fatality, on Alis where the abseil device was not properly threaded. 2 cases where climbers abseiled off end of rope close to sloping ground (only minor injuries). 1 serious injury where the climber thought he was being lowered and the belayer thought he was abseiling.
The sample is too small to be significant but it does show that the critical danger points are at the start and end of the abseil.
Prussics won't help at the bottom if you haven't noticed the rope end coming up. They will help at the top (as long as it's not the anchor that's failed) but so will good tie-in practises.
It's interesting to see in Iain Sedgmans Accident paper that floods and exposure each cause as many abseiling deaths in Australia as falls.

trog
2/08/2012
11:13:34 AM
Yep. For example the Carra Beanga deaths a while back now. Exposure (and possible trauma) knocked out those best able to effect a rescue and tied up the ropes.

I'm not suggesting what led to that, I"m not suggesting a backup caused that incident - I'm just saying that your average climber with no extra equipment may not be equipped to rescue an unconscious person weighting the rope.

A backup shouldn't be an automatic choice


deadbudgy
2/08/2012
11:45:32 AM
^^^ Agree with you guys completely. I was just pointing out that "rapping down carefully and not letting go of the rope" isn't always an option.

hangdog
2/08/2012
12:14:16 PM
On 2/08/2012 deadbudgy wrote:

>I think you need to do an experiment. Abseil half way down a wall of your
>choice and then get your mates to drop rocks on you until one hits you
>just so as to break your hand or knock you out. Let us know what happens.

Or how about you abseil down with your self belay and i kick rocks onto you and then see what happens. You get knocked out and then what? I know what i would do but what do you suggest?
One Day Hero
2/08/2012
12:18:59 PM
Yawn. Anyone who's been climbing outdoors for 6 months should be able to prussic up or down a loaded rope, then perform a rescue on a stranded abseiler. If you've been climbing a while yet are incapable of doing such a rescue, you're probably pretty shit.
gfdonc
2/08/2012
12:23:18 PM
Sobering.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1887098/Fatal-fall-at-Suicide-Rock-San-Jacinto-Mtns

You have to scroll through a few pages to find some details, and no-one knows for sure, but the prevailing theory seems that she accidentally clipped only one side of a double-rope rappel.
In which case a prussic would not have helped (on the single strand).

hangdog
2/08/2012
12:55:24 PM
On 2/08/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Yawn. Anyone who's been climbing outdoors for 6 months should be able to
>prussic up or down a loaded rope, then perform a rescue on a stranded abseiler.
>If you've been climbing a while yet are incapable of doing such a rescue,
>you're probably pretty shit.

I reckon that a lot of the people using prussic back ups couldn't rescue someone who has been injured. The example in the photo is an obvious case in point. She used an abseil back up and got into a bit of a mess with it. My point is there are better alternatives to using abseil self belay back ups.

Eduardo Slabofvic
2/08/2012
1:30:17 PM
Don't drop the soap around anyone who uses a prussic back up
One Day Hero
2/08/2012
1:36:06 PM
Don't hold the soap in your hands while rigging the abseil, as you'll be liable to drop it.

hangdog
2/08/2012
1:52:13 PM
Dont abseil with anyone named Bubba and then drop the soap.

pezz
2/08/2012
6:19:02 PM
It seams everyone is talking about the prussic beings a full backup if the atc was to fail... i rather look at mine as a aid(or call it a third hand)(rigged below the atc) i use it for hands free holding power when retreving stuck gear, untangling ropes ect ect..

I double check my atc is rigged correctly and my partner visualy conferms it before i set off...

I guess if you wanted it below but off the belay loop you could runt the atc on a short sling to save having the prussic on the leg loop... if your that way inclined

IdratherbeclimbingM9
2/08/2012
6:48:10 PM
On 2/08/2012 pezz wrote:
>a aid(or call it a third hand)(rigged below the atc) i use it for hands free holding power when retreving stuck gear, untangling ropes ect ect..

These are the reasons that I use a prussik backup from time to time.

Sometimes I don't and simply rely on several rope loops around my leg to achieve the same result when cleaning stuck gear, but on a multipitch solo and if near the tail of the rope, then this method is dubious at best!

When I was younger I almost never used a backup safety system. Now that I am older I have re-thought that strategy and use safety backup mostly on multipitch solo and also on abseils into 'unknown' territory, e.g. like an abseil descent off a multipitch where the descent is not down the climb just done, or a new canyon, etc.

 Page 3 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 77
There are 77 messages in this topic.

 

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