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Help a chap out - Jumars wanted.


Ben_E

6-Jun-2012
9:42:17 PM

On 6/06/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
> If said grassy knoll gunmen actually
>existed, would they fix pitches or just blast the route top to bottom?
>And if they fixed, would they use jumars or prussicks?

Siege tactics would clearly apply...


sliamese

6-Jun-2012
11:44:34 PM

Going climbing on rocks so wang, i mean i can TR in a gym for the physical exertion!

And leave all your jumars at home mate, you know theres a trail to the summit of el cap? And if u MUST climb it, at least do it onsight, but if you should happen to fall at least be pure and rap back down to the ground and start again.

Or just realise there are no rules....

"no chalk? Ill smear their routes with jelly if i choose to"

One Day Hero

7-Jun-2012
12:19:49 AM

On 6/06/2012 crazyjohn wrote:
>
>Actually, it would be more like jugging up the fixed line to the second
>pitch of Serpentine, leaving a backpack with lunch and puffy jackets, porno
>mag, beer, etc., then rapping back down and climbing the first pitch, have
>some lunch, then send the second pitch. It has probably been done many
>times this way. Ive done it this way.

Ok, I'll bite. Why would you do that? Couldn't you just tie your crap to the fixed line, then climb up to the ledge and haul it up? Anyway, if you're unsure whether the line is on Serpentine, you still only have to walk in with one rope, rather than flying in with 6.

But, yes, you make some good points too. Now that I've thought about it a bit, jugging, hauling, leaving your shit 10 pitches up, then going to the pub for a couple of days before climbing from the ground to the top.......that seems like a pretty reasonable way to do it.

One Day Hero

7-Jun-2012
2:38:15 PM

On 6/06/2012 sliamese wrote enough for me to know that he's taking this personally:

So, here's something I thought of. What if someone leaves fixed ropes hanging off El Cap Spire? If I go and climb Freeblast, rap off and hang out for a few days, then jug back up and climb another 10 pitches, then rap off and chill for a few days, then jug back up those lines and go to the top..........is that still a proper ascent?

dalai

7-Jun-2012
3:08:01 PM

On 7/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>So, here's something I thought of. What if someone leaves fixed ropes
>hanging off El Cap Spire? If I go and climb Freeblast, rap off and hang
>out for a few days, then jug back up and climb another 10 pitches, then
>rap off and chill for a few days, then jug back up those lines and go to
>the top..........is that still a proper ascent?

Are you suggesting once you step off the ground, stepping back down invalidates the ascent? Since when are you using sport climbing competition rules outdoors ODH?

Olbert

7-Jun-2012
4:33:29 PM

Thanks for all the offers and the PM's people sent me.

I am taking Neil up on his offer - don't be offended if I didn't choose you, it's just that Neil is prettier and more famous than all the rest.

Heh heh heh.

Also thanks to everyone who took to the time to give me serious advice.

Olbert

7-Jun-2012
5:00:11 PM

As for what I am climbing - the main goal is The Nose, but we are hoping to bag something on the Washington Column with a name I can't remember right now and The East Face of El Cap as warm ups.

The goal is for the leader to be freeing/French freeing everything and the seconder freeing the awesome pitches but jugging the rest.

As for the fixing of the lines, we thought we could get away with one person jugging with a grigri and a jumar and the other person having the ropeman and a jumar. It's not ideal but it isn't that far.


nmonteith

7-Jun-2012
5:25:24 PM

On 7/06/2012 Olbert wrote:
>As for the fixing of the lines, we thought we could get away with one
>person jugging with a grigri and a jumar and the other person having the
>ropeman and a jumar. It's not ideal but it isn't that far.

You can't 'jug' a rope longer than 50m comfortably with the gri-gri / jumar setup as the weight of the rope below the device makes it too hard to pull the rope up and through the gri-gri on every stroke. A rope 100m long would be close to impossible to ascend using that technique unless you use two hands and exert 20x the force of the a normal ascender sliding up a rope.

widewetandslippery

7-Jun-2012
6:17:02 PM

Another option is to put new light weight sexy webbing directly to the acsenders.if you need to jug ots all ready to go. Team USA u need 50 etriers and daisies?!!!!!!!

All said take a pair each and know your own set up and what you. Can do with them

Dr Nick

7-Jun-2012
6:20:36 PM

Neil, if you put a second crab on the jumar and run the tail from the GriGri through it then you get a pulley to help get the rope through the GriGri as you stand up. This does increase the risk of the GriGri not locking, but I've never had an issue and it's easy enough to tie a backup knot from time to time.

You have to lift the hanging rope as you slide the jumar up though, so it will be tiring on a really long rope. I haven't actually tried it on more than about 20m, but I've had a full 60m rope hanging below me a couple of times and been OK.

Note that Tiblocs are only $40 if you want a lightweight ascender as well.


nmonteith

7-Jun-2012
7:46:15 PM

On 7/06/2012 Dr Nick wrote:
>Neil, if you put a second crab on the jumar and run the tail from the GriGri
>through it then you get a pulley to help get the rope through the GriGri
>as you stand up.

In a pinch I've had to do this but it's certainly way way less efficient than jumaring. A thick crusty 11mm static is also a nightmare on a gri-gri - for example if you plan to use any 'fixed' ropes they won't be skinny little sport ropes, they will be more like 14mm++ steel cables (not actual steel, but they have the flexibility of steel!).

Wendy

8-Jun-2012
11:11:48 AM

I jugged up the rap rope out of Hard Rain on a jumar/grigri combo once after we got rained off on the first pitch. It sucked. Don't do it to yourself. I may be a light weight fiend, but really, you're taking 3 days worth of kit on the wall and the weight you are fussing about is an extra jumar and a few bits of nylon? Surely there's way more effective stuff to be economising on, Ollie?


sliamese

8-Jun-2012
1:50:13 PM

Trust us, you will be cursing being tight half way up the wall. Ive climbed a few fixed lines in the valley(2000m+, cos im so wang!), and spending the extra $180 for two jugs will make the experience sooo much better! Can prob even put up a notice in camp 4 for a cheap pair!

dalai

8-Jun-2012
2:23:03 PM

On 8/06/2012 sliamese wrote:
>Can prob even put up a notice in camp 4 for a cheap pair!

Though given the suggestions to get his setup dialed in, wouldn't buying now be better?

crazyjohn

8-Jun-2012
4:20:34 PM

On 7/06/2012 Olbert wrote:
>As for what I am climbing - the main goal is The Nose, but we are hoping
>to bag something on the Washington Column with a name I can't remember
>right now and The East Face of El Cap as warm ups.
>
>The goal is for the leader to be freeing/French freeing everything and
>the seconder freeing the awesome pitches but jugging the rest.
>
>As for the fixing of the lines, we thought we could get away with one
>person jugging with a grigri and a jumar and the other person having the
>ropeman and a jumar. It's not ideal but it isn't that far.

Please dont take offense to this, but if you attempt to climb the nose over several days using this set up, you will probably fail. Please let us know when you go up so we can watch your effort on the El Cap Report! Good Luck anyway!

Also you are probably going to climb the East Buttress of El Cap. There is nothing called East Face. The East Butt will give you some experience with free climbing on the nose. But not much in the area of big wall stuff. However, if your psyched, you should climb Moratorium into East Butt of El Cap for a good day out! If your planning on free climbing alot of the Nose, this will let you know where you stand. If you do WA Column first, you will definitely reconsider your jugging/hauling technique and hopefully wont get screwed on the nose. Have fun man!

cj

dalai

8-Jun-2012
4:33:03 PM

On 8/06/2012 crazyjohn wrote:
>Also you are probably going to climb the East Buttress of El Cap. There
>is nothing called East Face. The East Butt will give you some experience
>with free climbing on the nose. But not much in the area of big wall stuff.

Enjoyable climbing on the East Buttress of El Cap. Nothing difficult with sections you can simulclimb easily if thats what you want to do. Also gives you a chance to scope out the descent without having at the extra gear to lug...

As to big wall practice. We did pass a team the day we climbed it who though is a good route to practice hauling a pig up... They weren't the most popular climbers that day, especilaly when the pig was knocking stones down!

One Day Hero

8-Jun-2012
5:02:28 PM

On 8/06/2012 crazyjohn wrote:

>Please dont take offense to this, but if you attempt to climb the nose
>over several days using this set up, you will probably fail. Please let
>us know when you go up so we can watch your effort on the El Cap Report!
>Good Luck anyway!

I reckon it's really worth listening to cj on this.......however, I climbed with a german bloke in the gramps last year (Marcin the piss-monster). He had just come from a sneaky and successful 2 day ascent of the nose, pretty much in the mode Oli is talking about. Apparently it can be done, but it sounded a bit low percentage.

Olbert

9-Sep-2012
6:30:22 AM

Success!

It's not that I want to stick it in the faces of all the doubters but...I can't think of a way to finish this sentence.

As for all the people who genuinely gave good beta, thanks. For all the people who offered me their jumars for practice, I appreciate that. Thanks to Neil for lending me his jumars to not only practice with but use on the Nose as well.

It took us four days with two nights on the wall. We ended up doing it with two jumars each, three etriers and three daisies between us. We could easily have gotten away with three jumars between us, a daisy and an etrier each, as well as a grigri.


Miguel75

9-Sep-2012
8:35:14 AM

On 9/09/2012 Olbert wrote:
>Success!
>
>It's not that I want to stick it in the faces of all the doubters but...I
>can't think of a way to finish this sentence.

Rad Ollie, congrats. Any pics?

One Day Hero

9-Sep-2012
2:15:40 PM

Nice work Ollie...........and congratulations on the very restrained and mature "fuch you" to all the condescending chocky 'experts' :)

Seems that actual climbing ability + a bit of toughness trumps beta and bullshit after all!

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