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Can I get an opinion re: helmets

citationx

9-Nov-2011
12:05:06 PM

On 9/11/2011 Kieranl wrote:
>On 9/11/2011 Sabu wrote:
>>On 9/11/2011 rolsen1 wrote:
>>>Even safer is to not go climbing in first place
>>
>>Screw that, just avoid driving to the crag. Much safer on rock than on
>>the road!!
>I think this is a myth that we invented to delude ourselves. I know of
>only 1 person who has died while driving to Arapiles.

About which part are we deluding ourselves? That specifically dying while driving to a crag is less likely than dying on the rock (true in that case), or that in general, less people die driving than rock climbing? ;-)

2011 toll: 235 (as at 8 Nov - haven't heard of that many people dying while rock climbing...)
from http://www.tacsafety.com.au/jsp/statistics/roadtollcurrent.do?areaID=12&tierID=1&navID=1

Wendy

9-Nov-2011
12:32:53 PM

On 9/11/2011 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I continue to wear a heavy old style fibregalss helmet that I have had
>for probably longer than original poster to this thread is old. It is part
>of my climbing, and I feel naked without it.
>I have considered updating to a newer lightweight jobbie from time to
>time, but have not got around to ever doing it, due to also daily wearing
>a motorcycle helmet, and when I change helmets to climb, my climbing helmet
>seems lightweight by comparison!
>

I think you should get a new helmet. Fibreglass (and plastic) ages. Whilst I'd inevitably go beyond the recommended replacement time on a helmet, I suspect that 30 years is pushing the friendship a little. Why wear something that's heavy, inconvenient, hot etc etc if it's only going to smash into pieces at the slightest bump and provide little impact dispersion?

widewetandslippery

9-Nov-2011
12:42:15 PM

He should swap the Joe Brown for a beanie and bouldering pad.


Sabu

9-Nov-2011
12:45:32 PM

On 9/11/2011 Kieranl wrote:
>I think this is a myth that we invented to delude ourselves. I know of
>only 1 person who has died while driving to Arapiles.

Na I reckon you could prove it, but as below only if you took into consideration of where one is driving as being irrelevant.

On 9/11/2011 citationx wrote:
>About which part are we deluding ourselves? That specifically dying
>while driving to a crag is less likely than dying on the rock (true in
>that case), or that in general, less people die driving than rock climbing?
>2011 toll: 235 (as at 8 Nov - haven't heard of that many people dying
>while rock climbing...)
>from http://www.tacsafety.com.au/jsp/statistics/roadtollcurrent.do?areaID=12&tierID=1&nav
>D=1

I think its more than this, you would have to show that the proportion of road users who sustained severe injuries or died is greater than the proportion of climbers who suffered the same while climbing. This is because the number of people who drive a car is much greater than the number of people who climb, hence an unfair comparison.

I suspect though given the massive numbers of fatalities and injuries incurred from car accidents (eg in 2008 the number of fatalities and severe injuries was 5550 according to the TAC) would tip it in our favour even though the demographic of climbers is smaller (hence a larger proportion).

Been trying to find some stats to work it out properly but haven't been successful.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

9-Nov-2011
12:57:15 PM

On 9/11/2011 Wendy wrote:
>I think you should get a new helmet. Fibreglass (and plastic) ages.
> Whilst I'd inevitably go beyond the recommended replacement time on a
>helmet, I suspect that 30 years is pushing the friendship a little. Why
>wear something that's heavy, inconvenient, hot etc etc if it's only going
>to smash into pieces at the slightest bump and provide little impact dispersion?

30+ years actually, heh, heh, heh.
I seriously doubt that the helmet is as brittle as you suggest, and base this on a few things (not scientific, but still first hand experience).

I recently took a hammer to an old (similar vintage, but different type), fibreglass motorcycle helmet, that took plenty of dings/star-fractures, but other than that was remarkably resilient.

A while back my climbing partner who has a similar style climbing helmet, got clobbered with a detached half-housebrick size chunk of rock that stuck his helmet a glancing blow from about a 10m fall onto him. It star-fractured the helmet at impact point, and left his head with a dent on top from the compressed 'button' in the centre of the baseball-cap he was wearing underneath it. He has since repaired the helmet and continues to wear it...

Sometimes during aid when I test gear that happens to rip, it often dongs my helmet pretty good. Other than superficial scratches it still functions quite well.

However; ... the most compelling debate point that I can offer you, is the fact that I wear it while free-climbing slabs!
Heh, heh, heh.

@ ww&s
>He should swap the Joe Brown for a beanie and bouldering pad.

It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks mate...
;-)

InthewordsofHexy...
Who is that under the floorboards?
=============================================================================================
In the future ES writes;
>Do you wear it whilst saying "Heh, heh, heh"?

It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks mate...
;-)


Eduardo Slabofvic

9-Nov-2011
1:03:51 PM

Do you wear it whilst saying "Heh, heh, heh"?

Conando

9-Nov-2011
1:57:36 PM

Sure was. We washed a fair bit off but obvious;y had other things to worry about :)

Conando

9-Nov-2011
1:59:40 PM

You're pretty much bang on. He was a bit flustered before the climb and generally rushed to get started hence forgetting the helmet. The crack split into two and he went the wrong way up a 14 rather than the planned 11. Definately highlights that you gotta chose who you climb with carefully.
Thanks for the reply

jrc

9-Nov-2011
2:26:23 PM

Isn't it ctrl+3+h on a 1981 keyboard ?


ajfclark

9-Nov-2011
5:31:02 PM

On 9/11/2011 Conando wrote:
>The crack split into two and he went the wrong way up a 14 rather than the planned 11.

What area and do you know the name(s) of the route(s)?

lfranklin

9-Nov-2011
5:48:44 PM

Hey Condo,

I have to agree with Wendy here. I've been climbing for about 6 years and i don't think i've ever seen a piece of gear rip. (and i've seen some pretty dodgy looking ones hold!) Given that it was a crack i'd have to say the the placement of the gear (or selection of the piece) was the problem here. I own a helmet and use it every now and then but more for lose rock than anything else. By all means wear one it you want. My advice would be: Take your time as you progress from follower to leader, Look at all the placements your leader makes, discuss them and judge the quality of them. I hope you can find a menot that is willing to spend this time with you as i did. It really helped. Buy a climbing specific helmet i think!


D.Lodge

9-Nov-2011
7:02:39 PM

He Went up Death Gtate rather than Sweet Chariot. Death Gate is a wide akward crack that is hard to protect. Luckily he had clipped a bolt down and to the right, this stopped him going all the way down but he still cratered fairly heavily onto the ledge at about 4m. Was extremly lucky to walk away with 12 stiches, Yes there was a huge amont of blood but head wounds do that.


jkane

10-Nov-2011
12:10:27 AM

On 9/11/2011 Wendy wrote:
>I thought I might point out that this is not a normal outdoor climbing
>experience. Competent climbers do not rip multiple pieces of gear on a
>regular basis. I would suggest that either your friend was out of his
>depth, had poor judgement of gear or had specifically chosen to do something
>he knew had crap gear that could result in it ripping. The last one, I
>am also guessing is not the case as I doubt he would have been forgetting
>his helmet knowing he was facing a dodgy lead.

Wendy, your speculation might be based on an innacurate account of what happened. Like you, I wasn't there but I have spoken to the injured person and I'll have to check but I think he said it was one piece of gear that pulled, not more. And where did you get "regular basis" from? I've climbed with him for a few years. I've seen his gear hold, I haven't seen any fail. He wasn't out of his depth and he normally always wears a helmet.

I'm sure you would like to wish him a speedy recovery.

One Day Hero

10-Nov-2011
12:59:06 AM

On 9/11/2011 Wendy wrote:
>To remove all doubt
>that your new found mentor may be a massive hazard or totally overstating
>his/her competence, join the VCC

I totally agree with this statement...............not sure Wendy meant it to come across quite that way though ;)

Wendy

10-Nov-2011
8:22:11 AM

On 10/11/2011 jkane wrote:
>On 9/11/2011 Wendy wrote:
>>I thought I might point out that this is not a normal outdoor climbing
>>experience. Competent climbers do not rip multiple pieces of gear on
>a
>>regular basis. I would suggest that either your friend was out of his
>>depth, had poor judgement of gear or had specifically chosen to do something
>>he knew had crap gear that could result in it ripping. The last one,
>I
>>am also guessing is not the case as I doubt he would have been forgetting
>>his helmet knowing he was facing a dodgy lead.
>
>Wendy, your speculation might be based on an innacurate account of what
>happened. Like you, I wasn't there but I have spoken to the injured person
>and I'll have to check but I think he said it was one piece of gear that
>pulled, not more. And where did you get "regular basis" from? I've climbed
>with him for a few years. I've seen his gear hold, I haven't seen any
>fail. He wasn't out of his depth and he normally always wears a helmet.
>
>I'm sure you would like to wish him a speedy recovery.

I'm not saying this guy rips gear on a regular basis. I'm saying that it is not a normal occurrence to rip gear. Which if your first trip out on rock involves seeing someone rip gear, may not be the impression you get. Sometimes gear fails. A competent climber will usually have a good idea if this is likely before hand and will make appropriate judgement on whether climbing on is wise or not as a result. But well placed trad gear in good rock is extremely reliable, that he could learn how to use it safely and not to gain an ongoing fear of trad climbing. Which seems to be a strangely popular fear these days.
>

Wendy

10-Nov-2011
8:25:14 AM

On 10/11/2011 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 9/11/2011 Wendy wrote:
>>To remove all doubt
>>that your new found mentor may be a massive hazard or totally overstating
>>his/her competence, join the VCC
>
>I totally agree with this statement...............not sure Wendy meant
>it to come across quite that way though ;)

Thanks Damo, I'll let Andrew spank you for that one. Although if you substituted "scouts", "police rescue" or "the army" (actually I could think of a few others, but i'd be putting even more noses out of joint) into there, I'd be tempted to agree with your interpretation.

barney800

10-Nov-2011
9:00:11 AM

On 8/11/2011 conando wrote:
>My question is whether a good bucket type bike helmet can make an adequate
>climbing helmet.

I'm sure I've heard that wearing a helmet not rated for climbing can end up with you being hanged by the chin strap, if you end up being suspended by said helmet for whatever reason. No idea if this is actually true though.


jkane

10-Nov-2011
9:41:56 AM

On 10/11/2011 Wendy wrote:
>I'm not saying this guy rips gear on a regular basis. I'm saying that...

That's all fair enough. Your first post just came accross to me like you were calling him incompetent and lacking in judgement and a couple of others seemed to just jump to similar conclusions without knowing the full facts. From my understanding, he just misjudged one piece of gear and a couple of other factors (forgetting the lid & going the wrong way) added up to the injury. I'm sure he's had a good think about what went wrong and learnt from it.

I hope it doesn't put Conan off too much.

There are 38 messages in this topic.