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More on Rescue and Gear Shenanigans


sbm

1-Dec-2010
1:48:07 PM

On 30/11/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 30/11/2010 patto wrote:
>>
>>An excellent summary of haul systems and the effects of friction.
>>Shown there is a 6:1 with only 3 turns!
>>
>Nope, none of those. There's a 5:1 with 3 turns that you pull downwards
>on......its tricky and non-obvious, which is why those guys didn't have
>it on their page.
>
>I can haul my own weight up 15m in 5 minutes without pulleys and without
>busting myself......needs a diagram
>

Really interested to see Hero's 5:1 system or get a description, it sounds good

Richard Delaney

1-Dec-2010
2:56:03 PM

Are these the two systems people are referring to:

They are both great.
Note that with the 5:1 system, the red rope can be a 120cm sling.
The 4-1 as an add on system has only 2 losses due to friction (the same as a 3:1 z)

Richard

One Day Hero

2-Dec-2010
2:04:39 AM

On 1/12/2010 sbm wrote:
>Really interested to see Hero's 5:1 system or get a description, it sounds
>good

You see! A bit of a promo campaign, build it up and drag it out to increase anticipation, fake a few technical difficulties, bada bing, bada boom...............marketing ain't as hard as they make out!

I might have to email the drawing to Afj again as I don't have a photo page, it could take a day or two to sort out.............but trust me, this hauling system is worth the wait!


ajfclark

2-Dec-2010
6:47:38 AM

Sure, I'm at home for a few days at least waiting for my ankle to heal. Email them through.

davepalethorpe

2-Dec-2010
8:12:57 AM

If you want to haul a second who couldn't get themselves over the crux (and they are directly below you) you can use the z pulley technique, but instead of using a prussic onto the rope, lower the loop to the second who clips it to their belay loop. That way they can also help with the hauling too...if you can picture that!


ajfclark

2-Dec-2010
8:14:27 AM

Something like this Dave? http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Haul.htm

Wendy

2-Dec-2010
8:51:29 AM

On 2/12/2010 davepalethorpe wrote:
>If you want to haul a second who couldn't get themselves over the crux
>(and they are directly below you) you can use the z pulley technique, but
>instead of using a prussic onto the rope, lower the loop to the second
>who clips it to their belay loop. That way they can also help with the
>hauling too...if you can picture that!

otherwise know as an assisted hoist ... much gain for minimum effort, except when you have a school kid who can't pull even a smidgon of their own weight on their end and you end up having to set another 3:1 on your end of the line. This was on a 9 too.


cruze

2-Dec-2010
8:59:38 AM

...or there isn't enough rope slack in the system to drop a loop to the second.


cruze

2-Dec-2010
9:09:24 AM

Can someone provide some personal insight into advantages/disadvantages between a hauling system attached to the climbing rope which has been tied off between the anchor and the fallen second (see left example in Richard's post) compared with a hauling system incorporating a movable climbing rope (see right example in Richard's post)? eg amount of rope required, ease of set up, ease of change-over back to belay, etc

davepalethorpe

2-Dec-2010
1:44:40 PM

On 2/12/2010 ajfclark wrote:
>Something like this Dave? http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Haul.htm

Ahh yeah...thats the one! Better to have pictures!


ajfclark

2-Dec-2010
2:00:58 PM

On 2/12/2010 davepalethorpe wrote:
>Ahh yeah...thats the one! Better to have pictures!

Yes. And better to actually rig this stuff up and play with it then to read about it in a book.

Richard Delaney

2-Dec-2010
5:59:02 PM

On 2/12/2010 cruze wrote:
>Can someone provide some personal insight into advantages/disadvantages
>between a hauling system attached to the climbing rope which has been tied
>off between the anchor and the fallen second (see left example in Richard's
>post) compared with a hauling system incorporating a movable climbing rope
>(see right example in Richard's post)? eg amount of rope required, ease
>of set up, ease of change-over back to belay, etc

In short, this is often referred to as a 'bolt-on hauling system'. It's used by rescue agencies. The main 'load line' is rigged seperately and can be used for raise or lower. Many organisations run the tail of the load line through a 'progress capture device' at the anchor - think big gri-gri - so that, as the load comes up, rope is also pulled through this device by another operator. This can then be used to hold the load during haul system resets or, if the load has to be sent back down, to lower.

For climbing, it would be very unusual to consider setting up a 'bolt-on' system and far more sensible to utilise the fact that the rope is already running through a belay device that can act as the 'top pulley'. If you belay your second with a gri-gri, then a prusik and biner are all you need to set a safe z-haul.

Looking forward to ODH's pic...


ajfclark

2-Dec-2010
7:54:46 PM

> ODH drew:

patto

3-Dec-2010
12:13:57 AM

On 2/12/2010 Richard Delaney wrote:
>If you
>belay your second with a gri-gri, then a prusik and biner are all you need
>to set a safe z-haul.
>

A reverso or other plaquette type device also works very well. The trick I find to having these work smoothly is to have a large radius biner. All these fashionable skinny biners have terrible rope bearing surfaces. (That goes for all pulley biners in a haul system too!)


evanbb

3-Dec-2010
6:06:16 AM

On 3/12/2010 patto wrote:

>A reverso or other plaquette type device also works very well. The trick
>I find to having these work smoothly is to have a large radius biner.
>All these fashionable skinny biners have terrible rope bearing surfaces.
> (That goes for all pulley biners in a haul system too!)

I spent the 2 or 3 dollars required for a little red plastic pulley that goes on a biner. It helps, but doesn't fit on many biners.


pmonks

3-Dec-2010
6:37:57 AM

On 2/12/2010 ajfclark added a broken image link - it appears he pointed directly to the email in his gmail inbox.


ajfclark

3-Dec-2010
7:35:14 AM

Fixed pmonks. Google docs wasn't doing what I wanted...


evanbb

3-Dec-2010
8:03:24 AM

On 2/12/2010 ajfclark wrote:
>> ODH drew:

I like it.

Change both prussicks for Tiblocks or Rescuscenders and a locking belay device at the top and you've got yourself a system.


ajfclark

3-Dec-2010
8:41:08 AM

I was wondering how quickly you'd need to reset it with the pulleys running towards each other like that...

widewetandslippery

3-Dec-2010
10:42:57 AM

I'd say 5 times more than if it was a 1:1 system.

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