Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author

No good belay devices yet?


ajfclark

19-Oct-2010
3:41:27 PM

I've been on plenty of multipitches where you don't strictly need an anchor to start the next pitch. Panzer and everything else that reaches that giant ledge at the right side of the watchtower faces for example. Then I've been on single pitches where you build a belay before you start (like Tarantula). Horses for courses.

rightarmbad

19-Oct-2010
8:05:40 PM

One belay will tell if the person has the right stuff to belay.
There is no need to see them under a surprise fall situation.

It is easy to tell if they take what they are doing seriously.

I have taken a ground fall due to my much lighter belayer being lifted.
They went to the first piece.
I touched down quite softly really, the reason that I got hurt at all was because I rolled over backwards after taking the hit with my legs and my tailbone got fractured on a just placed so rock.

I now tie my very much lighter belayers down, but I also give them at least a meter to fly, so that they can move out of rockfall and generally stay comfortable.

Wendy

20-Oct-2010
8:10:00 AM

On 19/10/2010 davidn wrote:
>I anchor my wife when she belays, because she's much less heavy than I
>am and she has indicated difficulty locking off when being jerked around
>and that she may let go.

I'd suggest she needs some instruction and practice in a controlled situation, because it sounds like she's nervous of it happening and not knowing how she'll cope. Once you've tried it a few times with slumps and little falls, you realise it's not so bad. After all, locking off isn't complicated - you keep a hand on the rope by your hip. But as belaying training doesn't usually involve going as far as practising holding big leader falls, for many people, little or otherwise, it remains far more scary than it should. Any belayer who is worried about their ability to hold the rope in any circumstances needs some help to build skills and confidence in a variety of belaying situations.

I'm wondering how small these light belayers are that are flying miles into the air, because in 20odd years, I can't say i've ever gone more than 2m or so up.

mikllaw

20-Oct-2010
8:57:52 AM

On 20/10/2010 davidn wrote:
>The exception being when they
>get bashed into rock or extruded through a quickdraw.

Or, less amusingly, when the Grigri hits the first draw and the handle collapses and you have no friction.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

21-Oct-2010
12:13:05 PM

On 13/10/2010 mikllaw wrote:
>I don't think there are any good belay devices yet:-
>

... but that makes the game interesting, does it not?

>Autolockers encourage bad belaying, you still must use the anchor hand,
>and they can be fooled into dropping people. And they are definately not
>for trad.
>You have to remain concious with belay plates and Munters
>Waist belays are too painful
>
>Tho' anecdotally there seem to be more incidents with grigris than belay
>plates, I think this might be because of the number of alls each device
>sees.
>

A good (trolling?) post, that like helmets and bolts always gets responses!

Yes, belaying correctly is a learnt skill with whatever device of choice, so I think they are pretty damn good devices given the current technology, and I won't be going back to waist belays (generally), any time soon.

Re ODH's "shit belayer" point that he made, although I tend to agree with ambyoek, I can still see the ODH point of view, ... but with the following caveat...
Even if you know your stuff (are skilled in belaying), there are still times when sh!t happens, due the nature of the game we play, and that for me, is part of the attraction in climbing.

The thread is good in that it bought out some magic history re mikl/jrc belay incident.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

21-Oct-2010
12:20:44 PM

On 18/10/2010 kiwifi wrote:
>
>I'm usually lighter than the people I climb with (~50kg vs ~80kg, I presume
>30kg is a substantial difference.). My concern is that the leader will
>deck (because of the difference in weight) if they fall between say the
>1st and 2nd bolt.
>
>With that in mind I tend to not have heaps of slack out when belaying
>a (sport) leader, especially at the start of a climb and I try to be fairly
>close to wall OR if it is available I have something anchoring me to the
>ground (i wear a helmet so i figure small stones or falling gear probably
>won't knock me out.)
>
>Is this completely mis-guided? What is good practice for 'light-weight'
>belayers? Any links or articles on this would be really appreciated.
>
>Cheers
>
From your post it seems to me that you are already using good practice.
Being aware of what is happening on the climb, anticipating events, and having the flexibility of technique to adapt to changing situations are all things that only experience can add.
For example; some belays actually require the belayer to jump in order to soften the catch, while others require an extra krab to increase friction and harden the catch. Knowing what to apply and when, is the bag of tricks we build up along the way.

There are 66 messages in this topic.