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Nagging doubts raised over helmet safety


ajfclark

6-Apr-2011
9:32:14 AM

While we're on the topic, I've you're driving a car with ABS and haven't before, it's worth trying it out. The pedal can do some odd things under your foot which can apparently make some people take their foot off. The one and only time I've ever had to use it, that wasn't an issue As I didn't get a chance to think about it.

I was very thankful the car had ABS though.


tnd

6-Apr-2011
9:38:47 AM

On 6/04/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>On 6/04/2011 tnd wrote:
>>You're confusing ABS (braking aid which stops wheels locking under heavy
>>braking) with stability control.
>
>Since James has worked for Holden in automotive safety I doubt he is confused!
>
>
>ABS stops wheels from locking up, so you can then steer (without sliding)
>around the problem. For example a kangaroo jumps in front of your car -
>without ABS you slam on the brakes and your wheels lock up and you slide
>towards the kangaroo - no matter how much wheel turning the car will go
>the same direction (like being on skis). ABS makes the brakes go on and
>off rapidly and stops the aquaplanning of the car - so you can actually
>steer around the object whilst braking.
>
>Stability control brakes independent wheels to straighten a cars trajectory
>when it is spinning/sliding sideways (ie drifting).

I don't know who you think is doing the driving Neil, but I doubt many people would think quick enough to steer when braking at max. The big advantage of ABS is to minimise braking distance (except on gravel roads, where it can increase it). And yes, stability control prevents or minimises lateral movement cause by excessive driver input of steering or power.

Didn't know about James background so perhaps I failed to understand his point as worded.

What really bugs me is this dumbass idea held by some (not James) that introducing safety features in vehicles just makes people think they're invincible and thus does no good. That might be true for a handful of young men if at all.


nmonteith

6-Apr-2011
9:56:07 AM

On 6/04/2011 tnd wrote:
>I don't know who you think is doing the driving Neil, but I doubt many
>people would think quick enough to steer when braking at max.

If you go and do a defensive driving course (which I think should be compulsory!) then that is exactly what they teach you to do.

>What really bugs me is this dumbass idea held by some (not James) that
>introducing safety features in vehicles just makes people think they're
>invincible and thus does no good. That might be true for a handful of young
>men if at all.

I'm quite scared driving in cars without all the modern safety stuff these days! I like my airbags, ABS, and all the other acronyms. So many crashes are caused by other people anyway - for example my brother survived a head on collision at 100km/h when a car in the opposite lane lost control and swerved into his lane. Lucky for him he escaped almost untouched due to all the airbags and safety cells in his new car - the only injury was a compound fracture of his ankle from slamming his foot on the brake! The car was a total wreck but he was well cushioned inside.


ajfclark

6-Apr-2011
10:31:39 AM

On 6/04/2011 tnd wrote:
>I don't know who you think is doing the driving Neil, but I doubt many people would think quick enough to steer when braking at max.

The incident I mentioned above happened when I was still learning to drive. Some moron cut me off them hauled on the anchors. The ABS came on and I managed to steer around them while the car behind me very nearly hit them. If the wheels had locked I'm pretty sure there would've been a collision.

If a learner can do it, I'm sure other people can too.


tnd

6-Apr-2011
10:54:07 AM

Good points about braking and steering, perhaps instinctively people will, and ABS will enable them to, rather than go straight ahead on locked wheels.

Agree about the defensive driving course. I also think regular retesting should be compulsory. As a pilot I have a flight review every two years for my power licence and every year for my glider licence. A pain in the arse, but it does mean there are fewer cowboys in the air than there are on the ground.


nmonteith

6-Apr-2011
10:59:02 AM

I think one of the reasons we are not going to see hover cars in the near future is that the normal citizenry can't handle two dimensions let alone three!


rodw

6-Apr-2011
11:30:29 AM

You boys want to add more testing = more cost to driving.......seriously?..I think your being a bit nanny stateish on this one......you cant get rid of all the risks...and further testing will not get idiots off the road...as they will behave when tested, then act like twats again soon after.


bw

6-Apr-2011
11:39:38 AM

On 6/04/2011 tnd wrote:

As a pilot I have a flight review every two years
>for my power licence and every year for my glider licence. A pain in the
>arse, but it does mean there are fewer cowboys in the air than there are
>on the ground.

yet they're still there!


nmonteith

6-Apr-2011
11:40:51 AM

There are hoons - then there are the opposite - the dangerous scardy cats who come to a dead stop in the merging lane of a freeway, or stop midway through a roundabout or sit at 80kmh in the right lane of a 110kmh zone oblivious to the traffic nightmare behind them as people are forced to overtake on the inside lane (illegal).

When we test for driver licenses we don't put drivers on a closed track and get them to demonstrate high speed braking, avoidance of obstacles and required distance between cars so you can adequately stop (its much further than people imagine!). For most people the first time they ever slam their brakes on is in a real emergency.

widewetandslippery

6-Apr-2011
11:44:25 AM

On 6/04/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>I think one of the reasons we are not going to see hover cars in the near
>future is that the normal citizenry can't handle two dimensions let alone
>three!

I conentrate on the 4th, it takes care of the other 3.

We don't need better drivers or road rules as rules equals taxes we need guns to get rid of the bad drivers.


JamesMc

6-Apr-2011
8:21:58 PM

What Neil said.

JamesMc


IdratherbeclimbingM9

6-Apr-2011
9:46:42 PM

On 6/04/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>Stability control (snip)

~> Don't want it!

>spinning/sliding sideways (ie drifting).

~> This is a hoot when you pull it off on a bike!
;-)


dougal

6-Apr-2011
11:01:01 PM

Quite right. Very sloppy of me. Deaths are down since '70.

I looked again. At the head of the improvement list is better Roads, then cars, then driver behaviour. Also it's less safe to be in a small car. And less deaths > more serious injury (since '80). And in the US a study found that people do shift their risk. They don't think. They don't do it consciously. What part that has to play I'm not sure.

...My helmet is red.


Miguel75

6-Apr-2011
11:19:16 PM

All I know is that I'll be rocking a helmet when climbing, and a bullet proof one when driving near WWS...

There are 34 messages in this topic.