Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

Author

Fatality at Arapiles 11/11/14


Sabu

12-Nov-2014
12:50:05 PM

On 12/11/2014 gfdonc wrote:
>No speculation here but I wanted to add my 2c worth.
>
>Firstly, I think Mark Doman deserves a little more respect. He's a reporter
>who put an article together and considered it of relevance to create a
>post here. I heard the news report on the radio at 6pm last night (at
>which point it was not being reported as a fatality) and of course was
>checking Chockstone this morning for updates.
>Mark has posted under a login using his own name and posted a link to
>the story under his byline. When queried about any link he responded promptly.
>Yes we've seen activities by reporters on this (and other?) public forums
>that does not meet what we consider to be ethical standards but I don't
>see any evidence of that here. So a fair go is warranted.
>
>Secondly, my sympathies to those involved and affected by the tragedy.
> Someone has lost their partner, their friend, their son through a tragic
>accident. They have my thoughts and the respect of (if I can speak on
>behalf of all) the members of this forum during their grieving process.
>
>Thirdly, the climbing community is always thirsty for information about
>how this accident occurred so we can learn from it and be safer. In many
>other contexts this would be seen as morbid curiousity, but our concept
>of personal risk is so inherent to our participation that we have a direct
>and relevant interest. We rely on the discretion of those who know what
>happened to come forward with details when they can manage it. Mostly
>we have been blessed by their contributions, in time, but publication of
>any details is a generous gift, not an expectation.
>
>Fourthly, and from a more practical perspective - from what details we
>have this was an accident during a descent in King Rat Gully. Without
>knowing more details I withhold any further speculation but of course I
>have a picture in my mind. The point I want to make is that at Arapiles
>there are dozens of descents that have been done hundreds if not thousands
>of times that have potential to cause accidents. My comment is, while
>we may have put up with some of these situations for decades with the assumption
>that they're 'par for the course', isn't it timely to reconsider them?
> The descent off the Organ Pipes, Yesterday Gully and of course King Rat
>come to mind

For the record, the thread title was changed (by a mod presumably since Mark has not logged in again) since appearing last night. The original title was seeking information in relation to this incident, hence the responses of some earlier posters. Otherwise very eloquently put gfdonc.

gfdonc

12-Nov-2014
1:01:37 PM

On 12/11/2014 Sabu wrote:
>For the record, the thread title was changed (by a mod presumably since
>Mark has not logged in again) since appearing last night.

Thanks. I was not aware of that and it's not apparent now that the tracks have been covered.

On a related note, anyone who thinks reporters aren't going to look on public forums for information is naive. It's whether or not they do it with integrity that determines how they should be judged.

Jayford4321

12-Nov-2014
5:10:09 PM

On 12/11/2014 gfdonc wrote:
>No speculation here but I wanted to add my 2c worth.
>
>Firstly, I think Mark Doman deserves a little more respect.

I saw original thread title (think it was)
>Anyone heard about the death at Arapiles
Was gonna thank him for bringing it our timely attention but I hesitated due unsure of posters motive.

>
>Secondly, my sympathies to those involved and affected by the tragedy.
> Someone has lost their partner, their friend, their son through a tragic
>accident. They have my thoughts and the respect of (if I can speak on
>behalf of all) the members of this forum during their grieving process.
>
Well put.
+1 my condolences to the list.

>Thirdly, the climbing community is always thirsty for information about
>how this accident occurred so we can learn from it and be safer.

Yeh but ghouls exist in the climbing community too, so be careful.
>
>Fourthly, and from a more practical perspective - from what details we
>have this was an accident during a descent in King Rat Gully. Without
>knowing more details I withhold any further speculation but of course I
>have a picture in my mind. The point I want to make is that at Arapiles
>there are dozens of descents that have been done hundreds if not thousands
>of times that have potential to cause accidents. My comment is, while
>we may have put up with some of these situations for decades with the assumption
>that they're 'par for the course', isn't it timely to reconsider them?
> The descent off the Organ Pipes, Yesterday Gully and of course King Rat
>come to mind.
>
>

Practical descents?
Create another thread as this one is for grief.
Given the hoo haa about Alis chains, good luck if you cop no grief in the new thread.

hodgsonc

13-Nov-2014
11:11:28 AM

Can anyone tell me how I can access the Safe Cliffs Australia part of this site? It says I must log in and be a member of that group. My log in doesn't seem to be enough. It gives an email; nmonteith@yahoo.com. but it was bounced back.
Thanks,
Chris.


shortman

13-Nov-2014
11:56:57 AM

Try getting rid of the dot at the end of com


IdratherbeclimbingM9

13-Nov-2014
2:47:23 PM

On 12/11/2014 gnaguts wrote re condolences:
>+1 my condolences to the list.
... and another here.

It is sad for all concerned.
These kind of incidents are never good, though for the most part we collectively acknowledge them as part of the game we play.
~> Even though I have gained an older age, I still consider myself lucky to have gotten away with what I have along the way...

>>Anyone heard about the death at Arapiles
>Was gonna thank him for bringing it our timely attention but I hesitated due unsure of posters motive.

This applies to me also.

Thanks to the Moderator for changing the thread title.

OodlesDownHere

15-Nov-2014
9:50:02 AM

"
Natimuk Leading Senior Constable Peter Taylor said the man had his climbing rope around a large boulder for support.

"When he put weight on the rope to descend down, the boulder broke away and he fell,'' he said.

The fall was about three to four metres.
"

http://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/2690736/mt-arapiles-death-man-falls-from-king-rat-gully-climb/?cs=4122

patto

15-Nov-2014
2:46:47 PM

There is an interesting interactive timeline that covers some of the incidents araps that have made it to the media since 2006.

http://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/2694579/timeline-of-mt-arapiles-incidents-since-2006/?cs=225


Dicksonia

17-Nov-2014
2:31:38 PM

For what it's worth some Kiwi climbers were first on the scene of the accident and they said there was nothing they could have done to help the victim unfortunately.

Jayford4321

17-Nov-2014
2:43:24 PM

That is what goes when a lassoed rock falls on you. Better to choose another descent route or downclimb.
I still feel sorry for the bloke who instigated this thread and any who knew him, as lassoing boulders is a hard thing to determine their integrity exactly.

kieranl

17-Nov-2014
3:09:47 PM

On 17/11/2014 Dicksonia wrote:
>For what it's worth some Kiwi climbers were first on the scene of the accident
One of them Roland Foster, who I hadn't seen for many years.

Jayford4321

17-Nov-2014
3:36:37 PM

On 17/11/2014 kieranl wrote:
>On 17/11/2014 Dicksonia wrote:
>>For what it's worth some Kiwi climbers were first on the scene of the
>accident
>One of them Roland Foster, who I hadn't seen for many years.

Bugger of a way to re-acquaint.
Howya doing kman?
Therapy to regain equalibrium for this kind of in incident is wider than chocky you know.


Dicksonia

17-Nov-2014
6:23:45 PM

Therapy for me would involve installing a decent safe bolted descent route for the benefit of future climbers but I have not climbed in Arapiles and I do not know what the rules are about that however I feel putting in shiny bolts at the top could be easier on the mind than putting in plaques at the bottom

patto

17-Nov-2014
6:57:18 PM

For the benefits of those of us who are unfamiliar with the King Rat Gully descent could someone shed light on it for us? Why is it so dangerous? Is it more dangerous than dozens of other descents at Arapiles? Is it more dangerous than rapping?

Regarding the actual incident. Did this happen on the actual decent route? Or did the climbers get lost?


Sabu

17-Nov-2014
9:50:52 PM

On 17/11/2014 patto wrote:
>For the benefits of those of us who are unfamiliar with the King Rat Gully
>descent could someone shed light on it for us? Why is it so dangerous?
> Is it more dangerous than dozens of other descents at Arapiles? Is it
>more dangerous than rapping?

Short answers are no, no and no. The vast majority (if not all) routes there have lower offs or access to bolts for descending. There is a bit of a scramble to get up to two popular routes on the left hand side of the gully but if you're heading for those routes (both graded 18) you shouldn't have any difficulty with it. There is also a scramble decent to get off some routes on the right side but you'd walk past several sets of bolts to get there so if you were hesitant you are not limited on options. There's a note in guide about it being dangerous in the wet but so is half the mount when its wet.

In my opinion there is nothing more dangerous than the norm up there and the whole area is certainly a far cry safer than the decent of alis, for instance.

>Regarding the actual incident. Did this happen on the actual decent route?
> Or did the climbers get lost?

No idea about where it specifically happened, I could only speculate, although I will say you'd have to be very navigationally challenged to get lost in that gully.

patto

17-Nov-2014
10:09:43 PM

On 17/11/2014 Sabu wrote:
>No idea about where it specifically happened, I could only speculate,
>although I will say you'd have to be very navigationally challenged to
>get lost in that gully.
>

Umm.... Speaking about navigationally challenged... I have been down King Rat Gully once before (though my memory is vague).

I climbed Toccata on morning after too many vodka shots the night before. We got lost, missed the descent from the Organ Pipes and somehow ended up descending down King Rat Gully. I remember it being scrambly but nothing sketchy. We ended up going back to a bed in town and sleeping off our hangovers.

Wendy

17-Nov-2014
10:30:34 PM

On 17/11/2014 patto wrote:
>
>Umm.... Speaking about navigationally challenged... I have been down
>King Rat Gully once before (though my memory is vague).
>
>I climbed Toccata on morning after too many vodka shots the night before.
> We got lost, missed the descent from the Organ Pipes and somehow ended
>up descending down King Rat Gully. I remember it being scrambly but nothing
>sketchy. We ended up going back to a bed in town and sleeping off our
>hangovers.

That is quite impressive ... but then i managed to get lost many years ago on tiptoeridge on new years day in a similar state, so who am i to talk?

From what I have heard, they were not on any of the usual suspects in KRG, which as Sabu say, are liberally serviced with anchors. There are some scramble accesses, but you can always pull out a rope if you don't like the look of them. Or climb something else. These guys had come up an easy route over near Hunger Gully and coming down the left side of KRG, where almost noone does anything these days, hence no anchors or obviously travelled ways off. I don't know exactly where or what though.

patto

17-Nov-2014
11:01:09 PM

Thanks for the explanation.

From what I understand he was up with 3 others that weekend and his girlfriend was with him when it occurred. It would have been quite devastating. The funeral is on Friday. :-(

kieranl

18-Nov-2014
8:58:46 AM

On 17/11/2014 gnaguts wrote:
>On 17/11/2014 kieranl wrote:
>>One of them Roland Foster, who I hadn't seen for many years.
>
>Bugger of a way to re-acquaint.
The worst.

For me the significant thing to take from this accident is not whether descent, ascent or abseiling were involved but that detached/loose blocks are really dangerous and there are a lot of them.
That's now 2 deaths at Arapiles involving large loose blocks, the other being Denis Kemp on Birdman. There have also been at least 3 accidents at Arapiles resulting in serious injury due to loose blocks (Marbuck, Five Fingered Mary, Yesterday) as well as close calls (high on Bard last year).
Last week's death wasn't in a popular area but it shouldn't be downplayed because of that. Just because hundreds or even thousands of people have pulled or stood on something doesn't mean that it will stay there the next time. There are lots of time-bombs out there that are highly likely to kill someone if they do come off.
I had already crossed 2 of the Mount's most popular climbs off my list of climbs to repeat prior to this accident - Bard and Conifer Crack. Bard has the stacked loose blocks at the start of pitch 3, culminating in the detached shield that must be climbed over. Conifer Crack has the bulge on the first pitch - the left side of this is one huge block with a crack all around it. The start of the second pitch is a series of stacked blocks and the long groove has a fair bit of semi-detached stuff.

We can't totally avoid this loose stuff and still climb but we can raise our awareness of the risk inherent in it.

grangrump

18-Nov-2014
10:39:47 AM

>For me the significant thing to take from this accident is ... that detached/loose blocks
>are really dangerous and there are a lot of them.
yep

nearly killed someone at Booroomba that way.
take care folks

There are 54 messages in this topic.