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Chockstone Forum - Climbing Videos

Post links and comments about your favourite climbing flicks

 Page 2 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 67
Author
Burly Toru Nakajima on Grit
anthonycuskelly
30/08/2012
4:28:08 PM
Good luck hooking on those slopers M9...

As for getting more from it... well, the kid's inspired enough to travel halfway round the world to camp in the rain... seems like he's getting a fair bit from it.

Headpointing's seen a little differently in the UK, I think because it's the only place that has the grit ethic. If you've already decided bolts are out, then something has to come in to keep it sane...

davidn
30/08/2012
4:38:39 PM
Sorry, but...

Can you really 'onsight' aid? It seems a bit like onsighting boulders. If you have all day to hang around looking and working out what to do before attempting (the next move, or all the moves), it's not really an onsight in the true sense is it? Or am I wrong and some aid has to be done as quickly as possible else you'll fall off like a pumped sport climber? That's not a slam at you M9 (though we've done a fair bit of that in the past :), it's just a comment that the definitions that apply to one style of climbing can sometimes be a bit of a retrofit to others.

Yes, boulderers suck and adventure is dead. But frankly, declaring you're having the best time is narcissistic. The kid's clearly loving it, or he wouldn't be by himself in a strange country going nuts on hard and dangerous highballs with the occasional belayer he's never met before... (and flashing some of them, but I agree that calling it an onsight when there's a clear line of chalk on the holds makes it a bit suss).

Ignoring all the armchair philosophy, it's great to look at these videos and ponder what can be learnt from them. Toru's footwork on the slabs and general composure are absolutely amazing. No wonder he flashed Brad Pitt (a notoriously sequency and technical V10). The recent video of Jan Hojer was equally inspiring - his use of momentum is just sublime.
simey
30/08/2012
4:52:54 PM
On 30/08/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 30/08/2012 Olbert wrote:
>>On 30/08/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>...
>>>When I watched that vid, prior to reading the link above, I thought
>to
>>>myself that the climbing seemed pretty sussed, and if not, then the
>obvious
>>>tick marks give the game away!
>>>
>>>Nah. You boulderers (& sport climbers) can keep those tactics.
>>>~> I really believe that I get more from my low grade adventure onsights,
>>>and for that matter my high grade aid onsights...
>>>;-)
>>
>>I think it's kinda wank on the whole but what if you saw a line, felt
>>inspired to do it but it was out of your onsight league and wanted to
>do
>>it anyway?
>>
>>Would you:
>>a) give up and go onsight something you can.
>>b) toprope it and then decide that that's enough.
>>c) headpoint it like in the vid so that you can get the experience of
>>leading it.
>>d) attempt the onsight and live (or not) with the consequences.
>>
>>If it was me, and I was truly inspired by the line, I would probably
>do
>>(c). I can't really see it coming about though because I would much
>prefer
>>it to be something that wasn't death on a stick and I could go for the
>>onsight and fall off without fearing injury or death.
>
>Hmm. An interesting question you ask young grasshopper Olbert!
>I would choose;
>>d) attempt the onsight and live (or not) with the consequences.
>
>... however with the caveat regarding;
>>saw a line, felt inspired to do it but it was out of your onsight league
>and wanted to do it anyway?
>
>I pretty much know my onsight limit and am reasonably proficient at assessing
>that in regards to any prospective onsight from the ground. Consequently,
>if I truly believed it well beyond my onsight limit and I wanted to do
>it anyway, then I would aid it!
>
>What I find equally interesting, is that my onsight aiding limit is way
>higher than my onsight free-climbing limit as a consequence!
>~> ... and here I am not talking aiding a grade (say) 25 crack, as that
>is often a simple M1(!), but instead, onsighting inspiring lines that normally
>exceed free climbing grade 30+, and consequently end up in the Gd M6/7 (or higher)
>category.
>;-)

I don't know what you are smoking M9, but I reckon you should give some to Macciza.


IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/08/2012
4:56:27 PM
I am a bit reluctant to reply, as I am not trying to hijack the thread, but for what it is worth as a quick off topic response...

On 30/08/2012 anthonycuskelly wrote:
>Good luck hooking on those slopers M9...
>
It is that kind of thing that makes hard aid, hard!

>As for getting more from it... well, the kid's inspired enough to travel
>halfway round the world to camp in the rain... seems like he's getting
>a fair bit from it.

I agree, and that is not under debate. I was saying that for myself that (for me, ok?) I get more out of the tactics I use (for myself).
If Toru gets the same satisfaction out of his tactcs for himself then that is great! ... but I know that if used those same tactics then I would diminish my experience.
I wonder if it works in reverse for him?



On 30/08/2012 davidn wrote:
>Sorry, but...
>
>Can you really 'onsight' aid?
Yes.

>It seems a bit like onsighting boulders.
> If you have all day to hang around looking and working out what to do
>before attempting (the next move, or all the moves), it's not really an
>onsight in the true sense is it?
Why not?

>Or am I wrong and some aid has to be done as quickly as possible else you'll fall off like a pumped sport climber?
No.
By the way, none of us intend falling do we?

>Yes, boulderers suck and adventure is dead. But frankly, declaring you're
>having the best time is narcissistic.
I did not claim that.
I did claim that my enjoyment experience is linked to a different set of criteria.

>The kid's clearly loving it, or he wouldn't be by himself in a strange country going nuts on hard and dangerous highballs with the occasional belayer he's never met before... (and flashing some of them, but I agree that calling it an onsight when there's a clear
>line of chalk on the holds makes it a bit suss).

Agreed.
>
>Ignoring all the armchair philosophy, it's great to look at these videos
>and ponder what can be learnt from them. Toru's footwork on the slabs
>and general composure are absolutely amazing. No wonder he flashed Brad
>Pitt (a notoriously sequency and technical V10). The recent video of Jan
>Hojer was equally inspiring - his use of momentum is just sublime.

I tend to agree with that summation too.
One Day Hero
30/08/2012
5:02:51 PM
I bet the kid also probably did a bunch of onsighting and ground up trad climbing to a level which M9 can only dream about.........the headpointing is on top of, not instead of all that.

The real question is, why would such a kickarse climber go on a holiday to old blighty?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/08/2012
5:09:42 PM
On 30/08/2012 simey wrote:
>I don't know what you are smoking M9, but I reckon you give some to Macciza
>who we all know will appreciate it.
>
You are missing out on the joy of getting up climbs you can't do with normal technique?


On 30/08/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>I bet the kid also probably did a bunch of onsighting and ground up trad
>climbing to a level which M9 can only dream about.........the headpointing
>is on top of, not instead of all that.

I don't dream of getting up hard free climbs. Life is too short for that in my case, and it is easier to aid hard-aid climbs instead, ie skip the middle grade hard free stuff!!


>The real question is, why would such a kickarse climber go on a holiday
>to old blighty?
Agree. The routes in the vid seem blerrie short, he probably wouldn't want to high-ball Patagonia though ...
;-)

Macciza
30/08/2012
5:10:40 PM
Nil Bugger carborundum, M9 . . .
Yet another case of people 'gushing above their grade', methinks . . .
People who know little about 'Bold', or 'Aid', climbing making silly comments again . . .
Or applying their spurt tactic/ethics completely wrongly to it all, to support their position . . .

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/08/2012
5:19:39 PM
On 30/08/2012 Macciza wrote:
>Nil Bugger carborundum, M9 . . .
?
= translates to 'Don't diss grit'??
(I am slow today...)

davidn
30/08/2012
5:20:23 PM
Not the first time he's been on grit. I remember reading he did an E5 or so last time he was out there and soloed something reasonably hard. Still no idea what E5 is, but I bet it's hard!

@M9: shamefully, I find myself yet again agreeing with Damien. Reality is I don't really give two hoots whether it's a pinkpoint, onsight, flash, green point, vomit point, crap my dacks point... You either did it first time or not. So in that respect, as long as you enjoy what you do - more power to you!

(and hopefully more power to me too, given these young whippersnappers are all bouldering way harder than I ever will)
stugang
30/08/2012
5:22:39 PM
Oh dear - a debate between davidn and M9 - I'm checking out of this thread. Never ignored a thread before. First time for everything I spose

davidn
30/08/2012
5:30:27 PM
On 30/08/2012 stugang wrote:
>Oh dear - a debate between davidn and M9 - I'm checking out of this thread.
>Never ignored a thread before. First time for everything I spose

I tried to summon some kind of indignation but I've failed. Hope you enjoy the Grampians. Post a trip report!

Macciza
30/08/2012
5:34:44 PM
On 30/08/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 30/08/2012 Macciza wrote:
>>Nil Bugger carborundum, M9 . . .
>?
Don't let the buggers wear you down . . .

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/08/2012
5:37:26 PM
On 30/08/2012 davidn wrote:
>On 30/08/2012 stugang wrote:
>>Oh dear - a debate between davidn and M9 - I'm checking out of this thread.
>>Never ignored a thread before. First time for everything I spose
>
>I tried to summon some kind of indignation but I've failed. Hope you
>enjoy the Grampians. Post a trip report!

I am done with it too, other than still being interested in Maccizas quote translation/meaning...
Post edit: re
>>Nil Bugger carborundum, M9 . . .
>?
"Don't let the buggers wear you down . . . "

~> Thanks M.


Btw, davidn and I agree to disagree. There is no debate!
One Day Hero
30/08/2012
5:41:59 PM
There certainly is a debate! The question is; if you don't have what it takes to be a proper climber, is it a bigger waste of time to be a boulderer or an aid climber?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/08/2012
5:45:19 PM
On 30/08/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>There certainly is a debate! The question is; if you don't have what it
>takes to be a proper climber, is it a bigger waste of time to be a boulderer
>or an aid climber?

The boulderers win hands down*!
(*by virtue of numbers!!)
Heh, heh, heh.

The real question is; Would you rather wear a silly hat or a helmet?
Hehx 3

Hmm.
>if you don't have what it takes to be a proper climber

Hey stirrer, ... I think you are outnumbered by the plethora of new climbers who are still learning the ropes (so to speak), so what is a 'proper climber'?
widewetandslippery
30/08/2012
5:50:36 PM
M9, my limited experience of aid is whilst onsight is challenging, 3rd shot back up after ripping gear is even more so. Your thoughts?

davidn
30/08/2012
5:53:41 PM
Don't let Damo fool you. Most of his mates boulder, some of them very hard, and they do well on routes too.

Insider knowledge tells me he boulders at his mate's boulderer den too. By bouldering. Like a boulderer. Which is to say, with no danger of falling off and doing any damage and with much ethical hypocrisy. So much for all the smack talk about chicken coops. Sophistry.

A beanie is not a silly hat. It's an elegant solution for shitty, low, windy temperatures which happen to make friction better. ;)

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/08/2012
5:57:24 PM
On 30/08/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>M9, my limited experience of aid is whilst onsight is challenging, 3rd
>shot back up after ripping gear is even more so. Your thoughts?

I reckon both Macciza (would) and myself (definitely) closely identify with that summation.
~> Overcoming the insurmountable by a strict set of criteria (read clean aid), is harder than it comes across as being; ~> ~> If it takes more than one attempt to achieve the 'onsight', then the 'reward' is that much greater as a consequence.

Post edit: & I would add that falls of consequence also increase that reward!
kieranl
30/08/2012
8:03:29 PM
The video interested me because there was something vaguely familiar about Black Out. Turns out it's at Burbage South and the nice looking slabby corner that Black Out starts from is a VS 4c (?15,16) offwidth called for some reason Roof Route (put up in 1934). According to my old Stanage-Millstone guide it's one of the routes I soloed during my day at Burbage South in 1983. I don't remember a thing about it though from the various posts on UK websites it's a real grovel (5 Camalot territory) but one thing I am quite certain of is that it wasn't bouldering.

Duang Daunk
30/08/2012
8:48:14 PM
On 30/08/2012 kieranl wrote:
>The video interested me because there was something vaguely familiar about
>Black Out. Turns out it's at Burbage South and the nice looking slabby
>corner that Black Out starts from is a VS 4c (?15,16) offwidth called for
>some reason Roof Route (put up in 1934). According to my old Stanage-Millstone
>guide it's one of the routes I soloed during my day at Burbage South in
>1983. I don't remember a thing about it though from the various posts on
>UK websites it's a real grovel (5 Camalot territory) but one thing I am
>quite certain of is that it wasn't bouldering.

1983 huh. The brits hadnt heard of John Gill at that time then?

 Page 2 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 67
There are 67 messages in this topic.

 

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