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Chockstone Forum - Trip Reports

Tells Us About Your Latest Trip!

 Page 2 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 64
Author
Miguel75 & PhillipIvan go gardening Lord Gumtree
widewetandslippery
21/02/2014
8:54:39 PM
m75
www.dailyscript.com/scripts/apocalypsenowredux.html

every time, I think I'm going to wake up in the jungle.

but this is NOT your last mission.

loved the waking up in Melton thing.

very impressed by anyone going beyond the comfort and it seems for you you are. good work.

Just get on Erubus and go man! Eat that prawn and you'll never have to prove your bravery in any other way.

remember, its always a fishing accident on R&R

phillipivan
21/02/2014
9:26:14 PM
Dude, Redux added nothing good to that film.

phillipivan
21/02/2014
9:46:09 PM
Mistakes We Knew We Were Making

Notes, Corrections, Clarifications, Apologies, Addenda

The plan had been to climb the first six pitches in blocks of three, Miguel75 starting off. The remaining four pitches were to be swung or allocated according to whomever was most fit to lead them. Though M9 had dobbed M75 in to lead te fang pitch, which met no arguments from me.

Bones, become a parent, it'll sort you out quick smart. Huwj and I did Ozi Direct on four hours and twenty sleep. Granted we became wildly inefficient during the back twelve of the twenty four hours we spent on that route.

Mikey lost his fifi on the walk down. So by the time we started climbing we were sharing one. I bootied it on the walk out near mushroom rock, and plan on selling it on Chockky for top dollar.

To be fair, the first five metres of pitch three did look awesome. Beyond that I couldn't see. I didn't want to deprive Mikey of perhaps the first really nice thin section of climbing after the muck of P2. I couldn't see what lay in store higher up. Which, let's be honnest would hardly have made me more keen to lead the pitch.

No mention was made of my delicious home cooked high calorie wall food; date logs (they looked like small hard turds, laced with shredded coconut) and rice cakes. I'm deeply offended Mikey, next time I'm just going to bring grog and coffee on the wall; which - I'm well aware - your Mormon religion prohibits you from imbibing.

I've seen both Huwj and Miguel75 get pretty gassed jugging with small packs up to BG (Ozi pitch 3). I find jugging with a pack pretty easy going as long as it's not steeper than vertical. Perhaps that section is bulgy enough to warrant hauling, even if the plan is to *mostly* jug with a small pack.

There was no point five on the seven millimeter cord. It's just the same cord most people use for a cordelette, but much longer. Still fine to rap on, but we only used it as a pull cord, so two millimeter would have done fine also.

I wonder, in worthless hypothetical terms, if we might have been more successful with a slower plan and some bivvy gear etc. Nonetheless, I'm quite happy we tried it as we did. Mike had floated taking his two bivvy bags and no sleeping bag, for the night - which considering the weather would have been the better but still miserable option. In a ledge it would have been rad.

Secretly, I was jealous that I wasn't as wasted as Miguel75 by days end. But I certainly was by the time we drove home.

We failed to take doubles cams in the 0.75 and 1 camalot sizes for no intelligent reason; we were racking up very late at night. This seemed dumb, but didn't slow us down between the ground and BG. Mike did run out of small cams at one point.

On both Ozi Direct with HuwJ and LG with Miguel75 we have had a sling with a followers rack; including jugs, gri gri, and nut key. On moderate aid at least, to M3 or M4, I wonder if the leader could do without dasies also. I use them very little until it gets weird, hard, or I'm shattered. On harder routes I might be worried about losing an Ett.

I wore some softshell bibs on the theory that they would make the hanging belays more comfortable by not having a seem under the harness. It seemed to work, but Mikey's belay seat is so much more comfortable (and heavier) than mine it hardly mattered.

On the walk out Mikey listed every muscle that was cramping in his body; at a certain point I concluded he was just reciting every muscle he knew of. Don't worry Mikey, I'll lend you some of my anatomy texts so next time it can hurt alot more.

The blue totem cam is the best. Why don't I have it in triplicate?

Miguel75
21/02/2014
10:07:07 PM
On 21/02/2014 phillipivan wrote:
>Mistakes We Knew We Were Making:
>
>Notes, Corrections, Clarifications, Apologies, Addenda
>
>Mikey lost his fifi on the walk down. So by the time we started climbing
>we were sharing one. I bootied it on the walk out near mushroom rock, and
>plan on selling it on Chockky for top dollar.

Rookie mistake! I hate losing gear...

>No mention was made of my delicious home cooked high calorie wall food;
>date logs (they looked like small hard turds, laced with shredded coconut)
>and rice cakes. I'm deeply offended Mikey, next time I'm just going to
>bring grog and coffee on the wall.

'tis true and my sincere apologies. Your treats we're amazing and I figured if I blabbed others might try to snake my climbing partner;)

>I've seen both Huwj and Miguel75 get pretty gassed jugging with small
>packs up to BG (Ozi pitch 3). I find jugging with a pack pretty easy going
>as long as it's not steeper than vertical. Perhaps that section is bulgy
>enough to warrant hauling, even if the plan is to *mostly* jug with a small
>pack.
>
>I wonder, in worthless hypothetical terms, if we might have been more
>successful with a slower plan and some bivvy gear etc. Nonetheless, I'm
>quite happy we tried it as we did. Mike had floated taking his two bivvy
>bags and no sleeping bag, for the night - which considering the weather
>would have been the better but still miserable option. In a ledge it would
>have been rad.

Sloth like climbing is not to be derided. Sleeping in the ledge, in a storm is quite an experience.

>Secretly, I was jealous that I wasn't as wasted as Miguel75 by days end.
>But I certainly was by the time we drove home.

I did the numbers and in the preceding 5 days I'd done 18hrs OT... It may not sound like much but it was hot and brutal OT.

>We failed to take doubles cams in the 0.75 and 1 camalot sizes for no
>intelligent reason; we were racking up very late at night. This seemed
>dumb, but didn't slow us down between the ground and BG. Mike did run out
>of small cams at one point.

>The blue totem cam is the best. Why don't I have it in triplicate?

I freaking love the totem cams now. They were very comforting when placed.

Miguel75
22/02/2014
12:33:59 PM
On 21/02/2014 widewetandslippery wrote:
...SNIP...
>but this is NOT your last mission.

>remember, its always a fishing accident on R&R

Haha, not my last mission by a long shot WW&S. My wife has just agreed to come camping at Buffalo to let me try my hand at another Nth Gorge wall... Let's lock some dates in. And practice jugging beforehand;)

IdratherbeclimbingM9
23/02/2014
1:00:30 PM
On 21/02/2014 phillipivan wrote:
>Though M9 had dobbed M75 in to lead te fang pitch, which met no arguments from me.

You recognised a sandbag?
Heh, heh, heh.

>Granted we became wildly inefficient during the back twelve of the twenty four hours we spent on that route.

Fatigue can be an insidious introduction to calamity!
>
>I bootied it on the walk out near mushroom rock, and plan on selling it on Chockky for top dollar.

Good luck with that... given you don't reckon daisies are worth it either!
>

>date logs (they looked like small hard turds, laced with shredded coconut)

Anything tastes great on a wall, doesn't it eh?
;-)
>
>I've seen both Huwj and Miguel75 get pretty gassed jugging with small
>packs up to BG (Ozi pitch 3). I find jugging with a pack pretty easy going
>as long as it's not steeper than vertical. Perhaps that section is bulgy
>enough to warrant hauling, even if the plan is to *mostly* jug with a small
>pack.
>
I reckon much of the lower pitches tend to being just on the evil side of vertical, though regardless of that, setup is all important.
Badly arranged weight distribution in the pack will get you.
Not using chest straps on a pack that has them will get you.
Not putting a chest harness/strap on a pack that doesn't have that option will get you.
Depending on weight, yeah I know water is heavy, even for a single-day push; it is often easier for the leader to haul the day-pack hand over hand, than have the 2nd jug with it, especially if leader is resting at the upper belay, rather than short-fixing out solo on the next pitch.

>I wonder, in worthless hypothetical terms, if we might have been more
>successful with a slower plan and some bivvy gear etc. Nonetheless, I'm
>quite happy we tried it as we did. Mike had floated taking his two bivvy
>bags and no sleeping bag, for the night - which considering the weather
>would have been the better but still miserable option. In a ledge it would
>have been rad.

Interesting point/s you raise.
There are always trade-offs.
Another thought you have triggered in my mind is the possibility of a bivvy bag within a bivvy bag for horrie one night stands...
Maybe a puffy vest too, if cold weather expected??
>
>Secretly, I was jealous that I wasn't as wasted as Miguel75 by days end.
>But I certainly was by the time we drove home.

Also easily fixed by returning!
>
>We failed to take doubles cams in the 0.75 and 1 camalot sizes for no
>intelligent reason; we were racking up very late at night. This seemed
>dumb, but didn't slow us down between the ground and BG. Mike did run out
>of small cams at one point.

Again, ye olde balancing act re enough/too much gear...
Boldness often answers the hypothetical questions...

>On both Ozi Direct with HuwJ and LG with Miguel75 we have had a sling
>with a followers rack; including jugs, gri gri, and nut key. On moderate
>aid at least, to M3 or M4, I wonder if the leader could do without dasies
>also. I use them very little until it gets weird, hard, or I'm shattered.
>On harder routes I might be worried about losing an Ett.

Another interesting observation.
Although tenable, it would certainly make resting a more strenuous proposition, and any tested gear placements that blow would run the risk of losing the ett and gear, unless you clip into a step.
Personally I reckon the inconvenience of a dropped ett without daisy attachment, more than offsets the peace of mind by having daisies.
If I was that weight conscious to reduce same, I'd leave behind a large cam first before daisies, as I find them too convenient in moving around belays etc, and am prepared to crack-jumar on cams further than some, when it comes to leaving behind one for protection sometimes.

Re the followers rack and jugging. It is crucial for efficiency that the jugging arrangement is tailored pretty well to armlength etc. I know you and M75 are similar height so that probably wasn't a large issue, but depending on how it is arranged it can add heaps of grief-fatigue when exacerbated by wearing a backpack, as anything that causes jugger to lean back rather than vertical hang is unnecessarily strenuous...
Daisy clipped shortish to chest harness/backpack-chest-strap can help heaps here...

>
>I wore some softshell bibs on the theory that they would make the hanging
>belays more comfortable by not having a seem under the harness. It seemed
>to work, but Mikey's belay seat is so much more comfortable (and heavier)
>than mine it hardly mattered.

Here is another weight saving area?
Seams under harness can certainly be annoying on long hanging belays just in harness.
A teaspoon of cement-
Another option is to rig so you can sit on the daypack, instead of taking a belay seat...
>
>On the walk out Mikey listed every muscle that was cramping in his body;
>at a certain point I concluded he was just reciting every muscle he knew
>of. Don't worry Mikey, I'll lend you some of my anatomy texts so next time
>it can hurt alot more.

Love the humour!
>
>The blue totem cam is the best. Why don't I have it in triplicate?

... because you have got by to date without it?
;-)

phillipivan
24/02/2014
3:41:33 PM
On 23/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 21/02/2014 phillipivan wrote:
>>Though M9 had dobbed M75 in to lead te fang pitch, which met no arguments
>from me.
>
>You recognised a sandbag?
>Heh, heh, heh.
Takes one to know one, or something to that effect. Having lead it before, and let it become a massive energy suck, I was confident I could do it quickly and efficiently; but was happy to see how M75 would fare.
>>Granted we became wildly inefficient during the back twelve of the twenty
>four hours we spent on that route.
>
>Fatigue can be an insidious introduction to calamity!
Luckily there was no calamity on that climb. Just fatigue, dehydration, cramping, prolonged shivering, and a little stuck gear.
>>date logs (they looked like small hard turds, laced with shredded coconut)
>
>Anything tastes great on a wall, doesn't it eh?
>;-)
They taste good anytime. That said, I disagree, when sufficiently dehydrated any solids taste like shit, and swallowing is a rather hateful business. As I found out trying to eat a few almonds and sultanas before the last pitch of Ozi Direct.
>>I've seen both Huwj and Miguel75 get pretty gassed jugging with small
>>packs up to BG (Ozi pitch 3). ...
>>
>I reckon much of the lower pitches tend to being just on the evil side
>of vertical, though regardless of that, setup is all important.
>Badly arranged weight distribution in the pack will get you.
>Not using chest straps on a pack that has them will get you.
>Not putting a chest harness/strap on a pack that doesn't have that option
>will get you.
>Depending on weight, yeah I know water is heavy, even for a single-day
>push; it is often easier for the leader to haul the day-pack hand over
>hand, than have the 2nd jug with it, especially if leader is resting at
>the upper belay, rather than short-fixing out solo on the next pitch.
I found LG pitches 1-3 fine to jug with a pack. I wasn't able to keep all my weight on my feet for the top few meters of P3, but not enough to justify (in my mind) hauling that pitch.
I will try clipping the daisy going to the upper jumar through a biner on a pack chest strap in the future. In fact I'll try it tomorrow and see how it fares. 
>>I wonder, in worthless hypothetical terms, if we might have been more
>>successful with a slower plan and some bivvy gear etc. Nonetheless, I'm
>>quite happy we tried it as we did. Mike had floated taking his two bivvy
>>bags and no sleeping bag, for the night - which considering the weather
>>would have been the better but still miserable option. In a ledge it
>would
>>have been rad.
>
>Interesting point/s you raise.
>There are always tradeoffs.
>Another thought you have triggered in my mind is the possibility of a
>bivvy bag within a bivvy bag for horrie one night stands...
>Maybe a puffie vest too, if cold weather expected??
I carried a goretex jacket and insulated pullover. Luxury. Mikey had similar.
>>Secretly, I was jealous that I wasn't as wasted as Miguel75 by days end.
>>But I certainly was by the time we drove home.
>
>Also easily fixed by returning!
That is the plan.
>>We failed to take doubles cams in the 0.75 and 1 camalot sizes for no
>>intelligent reason; we were racking up very late at night. This seemed
>>dumb, but didn't slow us down between the ground and BG. Mike did run
>out
>>of small cams at one point.
>
>Again, ye olde balancing act re enough/too much gear...
>Boldness often answers the hypothetical questions...
It was accidental this time, perhaps it will be deliberate in the future. At least on Ozi/LG.
>>On both Ozi Direct with HuwJ and LG with Miguel75 we have had a sling
>>with a followers rack; including jugs, gri gri, and nut key. On moderate
>>aid at least, to M3 or M4, I wonder if the leader could do without dasies
>>also. I use them very little until it gets weird, hard, or I'm shattered.
>>On harder routes I might be worried about losing an Ett.
>
>Another interesting observation.
>Although tenable, it would certainly make resting a more strenuous proposition,
>and any tested gear placements that blow would run the risk of losing the
>ett and gear, unless you clip into a step.
>Personally I reckon the inconvenience of a dropped ett without daisy attachment,
>more than offsets the peace of mind by having daisies. 
>If I was that weight conscious to reduce same, I'd leave behind a large
>cam first before daisies, as I find them too convenient in moving around
>belays etc, and am prepared to crack-jumar on cams further than some, when
>it comes to leaving behind one for protection sometimes.
I would only consider this viable for 'easy aid' (what ever that means). I may experiment with the idea, but not to save weight, but to cut down on tangles and bulk around your tie-ins. Any thing where you have reasonable cause to believe gear may pop under you probably warrants them. I don't generally find this to be the case with the gear on OziD. I also expect it would make busting the odd free climbing move or two a bit easier. 
A lost Ett would slow you down more than any time you may hope to save. In reality what I may experiment with, is a single daisy that gets used on an as needs be basis.
>>I wore some softshell bibs on the theory that they would make the hanging
>>belays more comfortable by not having a seem under the harness. It seemed
>>to work, but Mikey's belay seat is so much more comfortable (and heavier)
>>than mine it hardly mattered.
>
>Here is another weight saving area?
>Seams under harness can certainly be annoying on long hanging belays just
>in harness.
Probably no real difference in weight. But it was slighty more comfortable. I didn't spend long enough on the wall to have a fair comparison to last time.
>A teaspoon of cement-
I'm all for the lighter less comfortable 'butt bag' seat of mine which weights almost nothing. I lost that argument with M75 though.
>Another option is to rig so you can sit on the daypack, instead of taking
>a belay seat...
That's one idea of your's, M9, I don't think I'll try. A) because it will restrict access to stuff in the pack whilst belaying (food, camera, water, rain jacket) and (b) some of my packs (battered as they are) might explode under treatment like that.
>>The blue totem cam is the best. Why don't I have it in triplicate?
>
>... because you have got by to date without it?
>;-)
That and I normally climb with a partner and can combine gear, and I'd struggle to justify the cost to my other partner (and myself). Also I try not to be too precious about what gear I will or won't climb with.
Still if you are thinking of climbing the route and have access to them, take em. Very secure in the pin scars.

Organ Pipe
24/02/2014
3:51:50 PM
I've been grinning all day in the office after reading this thread boys.

Takes me back to my north wall adventure back in 2011.

Great picks Mikey and Phil.

Gotta get back on aid (or any sort of climbing actually). Been renovating for a year with no significant trips / plans :(

phillipivan
24/02/2014
4:31:04 PM
The best part is we are already planning another shot.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
24/02/2014
9:19:14 PM
On 24/02/2014 phillipivan wrote:
>On 23/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>Anything tastes great on a wall, doesn't it eh?
>>;-)
>They taste good anytime. That said, I disagree, when sufficiently dehydrated
>any solids taste like shit, and swallowing is a rather hateful business.
>As I found out trying to eat a few almonds and sultanas before the last
>pitch of Ozi Direct.

The time on a wall that I was most dehydrated, I was basically fasting also. The little I did eat that was half palatable was apricot muislie bars and also cherry ripe bars, not that the latter had any great nutritional value, but they certainly kept the spirits up...
I imagine some fruit types would be fine also.
John Fantini and also Malcolm Matheson are a fan of bananas, though it would be hard to keep them from becoming squished.
Steck/Salathe on the original big-wall route in Yosemite, took a tin of prunes...

>I will try clipping the daisy going to the upper jumar through a biner
>on a pack chest strap in the future. In fact I'll try it tomorrow and see
>how it fares. 

I will be surprised if you do not find it a good tactic.

Daisys...
>I would only consider this viable for 'easy aid' (what ever that means).
>I may experiment with the idea, but not to save weight, but to cut down
>on tangles and bulk around your tie-ins. Any thing where you have reasonable
>cause to believe gear may pop under you probably warrants them. I don't
>generally find this to be the case with the gear on OziD. I also expect
>it would make busting the odd free climbing move or two a bit easier. 
>A lost Ett would slow you down more than any time you may hope to save.
>In reality what I may experiment with, is a single daisy that gets used
>on an as needs be basis.

I see some merit in a single daisy on easy aid (agree with 'whatever that means'!), but going back to your earlier point of cutting down tangles; I find daisies great for that! Simply drop the tangled ett and let the daisy unwind the tangle!

>>Another option is to rig so you can sit on the daypack, instead of taking a belay seat...
>That's one idea of your's, M9, I don't think I'll try. A) because it will restrict access to stuff in the pack whilst belaying (food, camera, water,
>rain jacket) and (b) some of my packs (battered as they are) might explode under treatment like that.

Horses for courses.
I am stoked to have recently acquired a BD mini-haul bag/day pack, which is sufficiently robust to take that kind of treatment.

Once upon a time, I regarded people who mistreated their climbing equipment as heathens. Although I still tend to that philosophy, I have learnt along the way that walls are hard on gear, but (importantly), I have also found that the gear stands up to the treatment!
~> An inch of horizontal ground in a vastness of verticality can be worth its weight in gold!!
~> ~> Standing on haulbags at clusterjam hanging belays can be a standard procedure!!!
;-)

>>>The blue totem cam is the best. Why don't I have it in triplicate?
>>
>>... because you have got by to date without it?
>>;-)
>That and I normally climb with a partner and can combine gear, and I'd
>struggle to justify the cost to my other partner (and myself). Also I try
>not to be too precious about what gear I will or won't climb with.
>Still if you are thinking of climbing the route and have access to them,
>take em. Very secure in the pin scars.
>
I don't own any totem cams, but find my hybrid-alien cams in small sizes meet the same need.

phillipivan
24/02/2014
9:38:45 PM
On 24/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>[something about HB and Fants preferring fruit]

I imagine the moisture content makes it more palatable; if it doesn't get trashed.

>>I will try clipping the daisy going to the upper jumar through a biner
>>on a pack chest strap in the future. In fact I'll try it tomorrow and
>see
>>how it fares. 
>
>I will be surprised if you do not find it a good tactic.

I'll let you know. Mikey and I are meeting up for a few hours tomorrow and will try a few things.

>Daisys...
>>I would only consider this viable for 'easy aid' (what ever that means).
>>I may experiment with the idea, but not to save weight, but to cut down
>>on tangles and bulk around your tie-ins. Any thing where you have reasonable
>>cause to believe gear may pop under you probably warrants them. I don't
>>generally find this to be the case with the gear on OziD. I also expect
>>it would make busting the odd free climbing move or two a bit easier. 
>>A lost Ett would slow you down more than any time you may hope to save.
>>In reality what I may experiment with, is a single daisy that gets used
>>on an as needs be basis.
>
>I see some merit in a single daisy on easy aid (agree with 'whatever that
>means'!), but going back to your earlier point of cutting down tangles;
>I find daisies great for that! Simply drop the tangled ett and let the
>daisy unwind the tangle!

I do that often.
One specific thing I can recall that prompted the idea, was free climbing from above a rivet, or trying to, where it was awkward to move off it and then reach back and unclip it. If there wasn't a dasiy on it, it would have been less awkward.


>>>Another option is to rig so you can sit on the daypack, instead of taking
>a belay seat...
>>That's one idea of your's, M9, I don't think I'll try. A) because it
>will restrict access to stuff in the pack whilst belaying (food, camera,
>water,
>>rain jacket) and (b) some of my packs (battered as they are) might explode
>under treatment like that.
>
>Horses for courses.
>I am stoked to have recently acquired a BD mini-haul bag/day pack, which
>is sufficiently robust to take that kind of treatment.

I use one of them as a crag pack; and if I ever actually decide to try and haul a whole route (enevitable I guess, but no specific plans) I'll use it. It's too heavy and bulky to wear whilst jugging.

>Once upon a time, I regarded people who mistreated their climbing equipment
>as heathens. Although I still tend to that philosophy, I have learnt along
>the way that walls are hard on gear, but (importantly), I have also found
>that the gear stands up to the treatment!

Different sports warrant different attitudes. I do my best to keep my road bike and kit in good nick; but my theory with rock gear is if it's not scratched it's only because it's not getting used (which either means you've got useless kit, or not climbing enough).

PI.

Miguel75
24/02/2014
10:30:53 PM
On 24/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I imagine some fruit types would be fine also.
>John Fantini and also Malcolm Matheson are a fan of bananas, though it
>would be hard to keep them from becoming squished.

Voilà, enter the banana guard;

http://www.bananaguard.com

phillipivan
25/02/2014
4:09:03 PM
On 24/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 24/02/2014 phillipivan wrote:
>>I will try clipping the daisy going to the upper jumar through a biner
>>on a pack chest strap in the future. In fact I'll try it tomorrow and
>see
>>how it fares. 
>
>I will be surprised if you do not find it a good tactic.

Best solution we found was a short draw clipped between the two shoulder straps and then clipped to or threaded through a low loop on the daisy, pocket three for me I think. Felt more robust than just putting a biner on the chest strap, and elongated less under load. Clipping it to a low pocket worked better than clipping it around the entire daisy; it kept you fairly upright when sitting on the upper daisy, which makes even resting a whole lot less work.

This made free hanging jugging with an 8-10kg pack hard but manageable.

Miguel75 had some method for jugging free hanging lines he stole from cavers, using one jumar like a chest ascender; but it had very poor efficiency. Perhaps he can describe it better.

PS. We tried quite a few variations on this theme including putting a microtraxion on this chest strap/draw and putting that on the rope (didn't work very well at all). The method listed above was easily the most efficient.
One Day Hero
25/02/2014
4:48:37 PM
On 25/02/2014 phillipivan wrote:
>
>This made free hanging jugging with an 8-10kg pack hard but manageable.


So, were you guys short-fixing?

sbm
25/02/2014
5:08:56 PM
On 25/02/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 25/02/2014 phillipivan wrote:
>>
>>This made free hanging jugging with an 8-10kg pack hard but manageable.
>
>
>So, were you guys short-fixing?

I always thought that unless you're short-fixing, the leader may as well haul even for 1-day aid ascents. you don't have to belay, so you may as well do something to stay warm and haul instead of twiddling your thumbs and getting harness hang syndrome.

Those mini haul bags from Metolius look interesting. If you did end up jugging with them, you could hang them from your belay loop at the least.

Miguel75
25/02/2014
7:03:25 PM
As Phill's alluded to, my original jugging set up is called the frog and with my hack job set up was supremely inefficient. In the linked picture you can see the frog uses a Petzl croll. I don't have one of those so I hung an ascender, clipped through the top biner hole, onto my belay loop. My other really big problem was I was too low down in the aiders and had my daisey's too long to efficiently jug.

With a few changes suggested by Phill; i.e. daisey myself in closer to the ascenders, foot placement in the aiders and the choice of one or two aiders on the lower ascender, I managed to get up the wall in a much easier fashion, both with and without the backpack.

On 25/02/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>So, were you guys short-fixing?

We weren't but plan on it this next attempt... I'll also be bringing some electrolyte thingy's with me and with my new found knowledge/experience aiding I reckon I'll be a bit more effiecient aiding the first 3-4 pitches.

Pat
25/02/2014
8:36:47 PM
Miguel - Phil, do you think you might move quicker with a party of three?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
25/02/2014
8:48:17 PM
On 25/02/2014 Miguel75 wrote:
>As Phill's alluded to, my original jugging set up is called the frog and with my hack job set up
>was supremely inefficient. In the linked picture you can see the frog uses
>a Petzl croll. I don't have one of those so I hung an ascender, clipped
>through the top biner hole, onto my belay loop. My other really big problem
>was I was too low down in the aiders and had my daisey's too long to efficiently
>jug.

>
>With a few changes suggested by Phill; i.e. daisey myself in closer to
>the ascenders, foot placement in the aiders and the choice of one or two
>aiders on the lower ascender, I managed to get up the wall in a much easier
>fashion, both with and without the backpack.

Having come to climbing from a caving background before SRT (single rope technique), was in it's infancy, and then being on a large learning curve as it developed, I can vouch that efficiency in jumaring/jugging can be hugely compromised by sling lengths being out by as little as a centimetre!

From the link;
>
The first step is to take one of your ascenders (a Croll is best, but any ascender will suffice) and mount it as low as possible on your harness. Use the smallest locker you have (or even a quick link) to get the jug low — otherwise it won’t work — and orient it so the ascender sits flat against your abdomen.


(I've temporarily been interrupted in making this post, so will come back and edit it later!)
Ok, back again.
Regardless of type of ascender used, having it low is a good tip, as is also clipping in at the bottom of it!
That article goes on to talk about using occy strap (or similar) as a neck loop to hold the harness jumar upright from it's top attachment point. This allows easy feeding of the rope through it, but equally importantly helps draw it up the rope, instead of having it flopping and catching on the rope, rather than feeding.

In early days I had my jumaring dialled in to the extent that if ever a knot became loosened, it was the difference between full efficiency and something rather less than efficient, and everything was specifically tailored to my measurements, as well as being adaptable between sub-vertical and vertical or overhanging ground styles; read ropewalk vs leapfrog techniques, using both two and/or three ascenders, useful for changing verticality, crossing knots and directionals etc..

When I pulled that system apart to adapt it to using ettriers and daisies, I lost some efficiency due to the fine-tuned tailor-made measurements not being as exact...
The upshot is that spending time dialling your system will give huge dividends when it comes to getting out in the real environment.
huwj
25/02/2014
9:39:30 PM
I've recently been practicing the two jugging techniques Chris McNamara demonstrates on his Supertopo films.

Has made so much difference. I now realise how crazy inefficient my technique was before.

http://www.supertopo.com/a/How-to-Big-Wall-Climb-Following-1-Low-Angle-Terrain/a10537n.html

http://www.supertopo.com/a/How-to-Big-Wall-Climb-Following-2-Vertical-and-Overhanging-Terrain/a10539n.html

Miguel75
25/02/2014
9:53:36 PM
On 25/02/2014 Pat wrote:
>Miguel - Phil, do you think you might move quicker with a party of three?

With my skills I guarantee we couldn't go any slower;)

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