Goto Chockstone Home

  Tech Tips

      Sponsored By

Chockstone Photography
Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Trip Reports

Tells Us About Your Latest Trip!

 Page 3 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 67
TR - Thumbs Out

9:49:56 PM
Well a quick update . . .
50th Birthday Plans had to be rethought/abandoned/revised for various reasons and have become more 50th Year plans - which is probably a bit more sensible, but more on that later . .

Thumbs Out - definitely protectable all the way to the ledge, and could probably even set a bomber semi-hanging belay there as well (before moving up on to ledge for further pitches or descent) . . .
Don't see how you could think that the top section is not protectable, or that it is dangerous, or that it is as hard at 26?? - there is pretty much gear near just about all the rings - except maybe the crux 'convenience' ring, but you have pretty much bomber gear just below your feet, and clean air below and a few not too bad moves to good holds and good gear, then on easily to a stonking nest of as many as half a dozen good pieces (3 would be ample) to protect the final easy bit, which has a bit of gear anyway but it would be largely unnecessary by then as it is easy climbing. . .

Bully Boys Buttress Crack - Just left of Hells Bells - crack to the left of ringbolts (face-route?) definitely protectable (and fall-off-able as well) and safe enough though it could do with a bit more of a clean up at the top crack and final face - Would provide a fairly nice introduction to low 20's trad - you could extend runners from the rings to 'protect' your protection if you felt uneasy and presents some interesting gear placement/climbing options . . .

4:32:12 PM
Wow has it really been that long . . .
Hmm Had 1 quick look one day with Zac and I looked at the extension by myself one time
Well, it needed a bit of a cleanup due to strange chalk buildup - blown in from other routes?? Could do with a bit more cleaning . . .
And it seems my choice of standard cheap Bunnings bolts wasn't the best - should I have used stainless, or were they too thin? Not sure . . .
Anyway, can climb to crux and can climb crux, crux gear is tested, and backup scenarios should still be good. And it should be ok after that . . .
Hope to get back soon . ..

7:57:00 PM
Got back on it for an early Fathers Day present . . .

Racked and ready to rock . . .

Placing gear after the crux, after a few falls . . .

Then punching it to better gear up higher . . .
1:58:00 AM
Facts gents

1. Mate Bundy left that wall for nearly 2 years before he went and bolted it! He as others did, believed you werent coming back Macca!!! What is a reasonable time frime if a route is not being actively tried???

2. Macca I got stuck into you because your ranting and raving on here is hypocritical after you were involved with stealing the route Monique cleaned and was working.

3. The reason I wont allow you access to my Facebook site/page is nothing to do with this rubbish but to do with the fact that i got constant posts all over my page from you about Marijuana and its legalisation!!! Not a good look for my line of work associating with that shit!!!

Question - have you acheived anything apart from semi aiding you way up it and abseil inspection yet. Because by technicality of the original definition of Trad Climbing and Sport Climbing, anything less than ground up onsight is actually considered a Sport Climb (whether it has bolts or not)!!!!

If you can climb it on placed gear then more repect to you, it really only is one route out 1000s in the mountains, not worth the bickering!!!

11:48:25 AM
The Real Facts people . . .

1. They had been bolting there for 2 years before I even went there and they had not touched the line - I started attempting it on my first day there. Maybe a year later but certainly not 2 whilst I was still actively trying it Bundy and crew decide to bolt it without even attempting it as a free line. A project does not need tick marks and massive amount of chalk to be 'currently active'. Or you guys could have tried it on trad, it was always open for other trad attempts if people were prepared to try it that way. The reasonable thing to do would have been to get in contact with me, plain and simple - but instead it was decided to knowingly ringbolt it

2. This is your brain on crack was an open trad project Mike cleaned up for all and sundry - it was not Moniques project. And how does my being involved with a FA on an open trad project justify retrobolting my trad project. That really does not add up . . .

3. I dont see what point 2 has to do with your rant and raving (calling me an idiot and retard) for having written TRAD on the cliff with chalk and a clayey rock, claiming I had permanently defaced the cliff by carving letters into it etc etc - FFS it washed off with water and a quick brush - I'll accept your apology here or you can post in on your wall for all to see . . .

Answer - YES. I had climbed ground up to the roof on first day, before then traversing in to check the roof gear and moves. Had done the roof moves and attempted it on lead and fell on the roof gear BEFORE Bundy bolted it . . .
Currently climbing to and falling at crux, placing gear, can climb crux, and have climbed crux to final gear on lead, placing gear - so basically I have climbed it trad on lead with a fall . . .
I have done negligible aiding and only a little abseil inspection, - and I'm not sure of your Sport Climb definition there, but whatever; it's a trad route, the second ascentionist will be able to approach it ground up, placing the gear, knowing that some old dude has done it before and that its only so hard . . .

So basically, I was on it first, I can climb it placing the gear - it's a Trad route. If you can't climb it that way then bad luck, its only one route after all . . .
2:59:06 AM
I apologise for the claiming it had been carved inI was misinformed, but that was what had been reported to me direct from the crag, prior to me getting down there and seeing it 2 days later.

That said I still stand by the fact that Bundy gave you ample time to get back on it prior to him touching it and what was done to his bolts was a joke!! I dont apologise for saying those actions were idiotic and unnecessary!!

You rant and rave about this, but same same you guys knew Monique was actively working that route!!!!

3:02:55 PM
Thanks for the apology regarding the carving accusations and insults, I had figured that you were misinformed and were venting without full knowledge - I could not understand how it could be otherwise . . .

I think you will find that is was actually less than even a year after I first logged it as a trad project that Bundy retro-bolted it and I was still active on it at that time. Really, Bundy should have gotten in contact with me or simply not bolted it! So do you stand by Bundy's right to retro-bolt my trad-line and claim it as a closed project? I would have had no real issue if he had tried it as a trad route, it was open . . . The 'decommisioning' of the rings was the quickest, easiest solution I had at the time, otherwise I would have removed them completely - they should not have been placed full stop! If I had access at the time to a cordless grinder then they would have been chopped . It was a trad project that should not have been bolted! What was done to my route was a 'joke', and a pathetic one at that . .

Mikl's 'This Is Your Brain On Crack' was an open project - Mike sent details of it to many people, myself and Zac included, urging all of us to get on it. Open projects are not able to be 'claimed' by people, which is what S&M did - I consider this an affront to the whole climbing community, the route was also retro'd by them as they added a mid-pitch belay . . .

I'll just through that last one straight back at ya - Bundy et al knew that I was trying the route as trad, and being unable to meet the challenge that I had set, apparently not even attempting it, decided instead to retro over-ringbolt the thing - complete with convenience/dogging bolts at anything remotedly difficult so any cruxy moves could be dogged thru to provide toprope protection to 'work the moves'. This not only destroys my trad route but also destroys much of the challenge of the route itself, turning it into an easily aided clip up of little consequence - a gymby climb . . .

Yeah so I knew Monique was trying an open project, and that she was (insultingly) claiming as closed; and I belayed Zac on it - strange how you don't give Zac any grief about that?? I can see how that might make people to want to steal my trad projects to try to annoy me, but I reject that it gives any justification to the retro-ringbolting of my trad projects. That logic don't add up!

Are you guys really that confronted by the fact that there may be a climb there that I can climb that you's can't? And does the impossibility of the route really need to be destroyed because of that?
6:42:45 PM
Jus wondering, ii presume this route iz an open project since its trad? would love to have a crack of this crack

9:24:13 PM
Yeah sure, why not?
It's already been retro-ringbolted by Bundy, been semi-debolted by some bloke called Shaun, Bundy's LCD spurt version of it has been stolen/pinkpointed by Jason Smith, and of course it had already been climbed and abandoned by Monty, and before any of that apparently Todd Skinner ticked it years ago . . .
Just drop us a line so I can come and watch/laugh/call 000 etc . . .
Good luck with the gear . . ..

9:37:46 PM
And before the accusations made on social media that these photos are misrepresentative start to made here . . .
I will state categorically that the above photos are of a single ground-up placing-gear attempt - I fell and had a rest . . .
No pink-pointing, dogging, ring-pulling, sport-aid or convenience bolts were used ay any time during this ascent.
All climbing was on lead (even the little runout at the end) and naturally protected.

If you feel you can prove otherwise than 'put up or shut up', and maybe show a little respect . . .
6:40:32 AM
so its been climbed or played on by todd skinner, monty, jason smith, bundy, & you are still claiming it as your project? & in somewhere in between your lacky went down & made a mess of chopping the bolts?

7:51:50 AM
On 5/09/2013 Macciza wrote:
>I will state categorically that the above photos are of a single ground-up placing-gear attempt - I fell and had a rest . . .

So you weighted the rope twice...

>No pink-pointing, dogging, ring-pulling, sport-aid or convenience bolts were used ay any time during this ascent.

But that's not dogging?

2:45:21 PM
No, not in my book . .
Maybe 20 years ago I might have said I was 'HangDogging' it i.e. working out the moves on lead after a fall rather than lowering to the ground and starting again. But I had already climb it previously and was simply trying to climb it clean, not 'working out' a sequence to be drawn on the rock with chalk lines, dots and L/R hand indications. . .

These days 'Dogging' is an even more dodgy technique that is more akin to outright cheating, to the point of placing 'dogging' bolts that allow you to progress through crux sections by pulling on draws to clip higher protection so you can than work the difficult section without consequence. The bolted version of this route is constructed that way, not only is it possible to pull through the crux, via a convenience / dogging bolt (completely unnecessary from a protection point of view) that also allows you to work the crux out without falling. Dogging involves avoiding mandatory climbing, cheating to make it easier etc, not meeting the challenge on the sharp end with all its consequences . . .

The route actually has no natural protection in the middle of the crux that allows you do this - you need to climb through the crux, you can't 'dog' it (unless you chose to use the 'dogging' ring), you have to actually climb through it . . .

But whatever, if 'dogging' is simply taking a rest whilst climbing everything else under your own steam, then clearly we need another word for the nefarious tactics used by spurt climbers - maybe that should just be call 'cheating' ie First I cheated my way up the route, then I dogged it, then I redpointed it . . (Wow what a hardcore climber)

But whatever - All climbing was on lead and no cheating was involved, is that better . . .

3:00:19 PM
Lets just call it Aid and move on then...which can involve free climb moves...though seriously Id call it you either climbed it or dogged it, who gives a shit about the different shades of grey..first world problems me thinks.

3:22:38 PM
Well all sport climbing is 'Aid' because it uses artificial preplaced protection which 'aids' you to do a climb which you otherwise could not get up
But ok then , I climbed it (with a fall) . . .
Who gives a shit? Those who care for differentiating between 'cheating' and 'climbing' . . .

The main purpose for even raising this is the fact that I have been accused of 'cheating' on the climb and misrepresenting the photos - which I didn't and haven't . . .
I think it is because I skipped the crux convenience dogging bolt, and ran it out a little, and the person in question can't accept/believe that I did (probably because they couldn't/wouldn't). . .

4:27:00 PM
I think the only one that seems to care Macca is you, your being trolled...climb it, don't climb.....pretty sure no one really cares except to stir you up.

6:41:44 PM
I care; less bolts, more balls

6:54:11 PM
I'm talking the definition of dogging BW, I ain't entering the bolt to or not to bolt either climb it clean or its a is pedantic crap and really only important to the individual anyway.

7:55:33 PM
@bw - Good to know that some people still care . . .

But I guess I can live the 'dog' bit, even though there is a huge difference between M0 - resting & M1 - sport aid dogging; good to know that others don't differentiate the two
because now it means that there are a lot more climbs that I have actually climbed/dogged which I would not have otherwise counted due to aiding, french-freeing, and mid-route pink-pointing . . .
8:41:02 PM
r u the Clive Palmer of climbing? wtf is mid-router-pink-pointing????????? and sport aid dogging??? and he difference between this and french freedom????

we care
we really do

 Page 3 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 67
There are 67 messages in this topic.


Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Landscape Photos Australia

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.

Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | High Country Mountain Huts | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints