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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 28
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Arapiles The Bluffs (General) Bluff Major [ Arapiles Guide | Arapiles Images ] 

Author
*Goodbye to All That (20)
gfdonc
1/05/2008
3:42:03 PM
Did this route the other week. It has a star in the Select Guide, and several people recommended it to me.

It perhaps deserves the star based on its fantastic position BUT the top section (of Kama Sutra) is covered in lichen and protected mainly by old, droopy rusty carrots.

Plus: after a hard start (good wires) you don't have any good gear until a fair bit higher where a fall would land you on (or past) the Scorpion ledge. Scary. Goodbye to all what?
(There's a nice shiny bolt a few metres higher: must be part of something else?)

Then after heading right (2 RP behind a hollow flake, breathe..) and crossing Scorpion (aah, a crack, some gear!) there is a struggle to get past a bush before finding some rusty carrots at the end of p1 of Kama Sutra.

At one extreme: take away the star until the top section gets brushed and rebolted.
As a minimum: deserves some more cautious recommendations in the guide.

It is also written up as one 35m pitch. You really want to break it, as rope drag is pretty bad, plus the poor second would deck (on stretch+slack) if they fell off the crux.

Enjoy the position (best at Araps?) but be warned.
- Steve
simey
1/05/2008
3:56:00 PM
We have already taken the star off this route, although I think the description is still the same. I'm guessing it would be a better route if re-equipped. Chat to Kieran.
kieranl
1/05/2008
8:56:45 PM
On 1/05/2008 gfdonc wrote:
>It perhaps deserves the star based on its fantastic position BUT the top
>section (of Kama Sutra) is covered in lichen and protected mainly by old,
>droopy rusty carrots.
I thought there was quite a lot of good gear apart from the bolts, which are terrible but my memory may be fallible on this. It would certainly be improved if the bolts on the top section were fixed up; maybe one good bolt instead of the couple of old aid bolts. I don't remember it being lichenous but ...
>
>Plus: after a hard start (good wires) you don't have any good gear until
>a fair bit higher where a fall would land you on (or past) the Scorpion
>ledge. Scary. Goodbye to all what?
>(There's a nice shiny bolt a few metres higher: must be part of something
>else?)
The bolt is Nick White's Taylor Made 27 (?4 bolts). It goes straight up the middle of the beautiful wall between Quo Vadis and Scorpion but doesn't rate any stars. Is that because it's rubbish or just because it's one of Nicks?
I did remember GTaT as being well protected and got a big shock when I repeated it a few years ago. Never trust the opinion of the first-ascent party.
>
>Then after heading right (2 RP behind a hollow flake, breathe..) and crossing
>Scorpion (aah, a crack, some gear!) there is a struggle to get past a bush
>before finding some rusty carrots at the end of p1 of Kama Sutra.
I don't remember the bush. Maybe I pruned it and it's grown back. Maybe it's time for the old bolts in Kama Sutra to be fixed up: removed if they're not used or replaced. A few people have done KS recently and should be able to comment on the bolts.
>
>At one extreme: take away the star until the top section gets brushed
>and rebolted.
>As a minimum: deserves some more cautious recommendations in the guide.
>
>It is also written up as one 35m pitch. You really want to break it,
>as rope drag is pretty bad, plus the poor second would deck (on stretch+slack)
>if they fell off the crux.
It is definitely a two pitch climb and was originally written up that way.
Also, I have never really understood the "designer pitch" comment in the Select guide. It might lead people to believe that the climb was carefully inspected, cleaned etc. It was actually done on a whim in the late afternoon. We had just done Missing Link or Preservative Added and decided to rap down Quo Vadis and give it a go. I had previously done the start many years earlier with Chris Shepherd (one of Chris's earliest climbs) as a variant to Quo Vadis and thought that it might offer a good way into Kama Sutra. I was right but I did get the protection side wrong. The name, from Robert Graves' book title, comes from having the abseil gear we had placed removed from the top while we were on the climb.>
>Enjoy the position (best at Araps?) but be warned.
>- Steve
>
*post-edit* Why didn't I tell Simey that I had changed my mind about the protection? I just forgot.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
1/05/2008
9:17:14 PM
I am wrapped!
I find it fascinating how history of climbs evolve, ... even from a 1st ascentionist's point of view.
Thanks for posting that kieranl.
gfdonc
2/05/2008
9:32:03 AM
OK, we agree about removing a star, then.
Some mention needs to be made about poor pro after the start.

Regarding the bolts, when you reach Karma Sutra near the end of p1 there were two rusty carrots, I think about a metre apart. One would be enough (I think there were good placements just below the first).

The top two bolts are well positioned and it isn't overbolted by leaving both in place. The first one isn't easy to clip, though - can I humbly suggest a FH if anyone is contemplating replacement?
simey
2/05/2008
11:20:38 AM
Here is the new description as it will appear in the guide...

Goodbye To All That 35m 20
Gains the superb second pitch of Kama Sutra. 1) 15m (20) Thin crack 2m L of Scorpion provides a hard start. At 5m traverse R (iffy pro) across Scorpion and into Kama Sutra. Up to small ledge. 2) 20m (19) Continue up Kama Sutra’s second
pitch. Kieran Loughran, Meg Sleeman Jan ’88.
gfdonc
2/05/2008
11:56:19 AM
Yep, happy with that, but I'd expect to be warned there are 4 carrots (to take hangers).
gfdonc
2/05/2008
12:00:18 PM
and if anyone wants to replace the top 2 bolts before Simey finalises the guide, I will contribute to costs.

And if Kieran agreed to add a bolt in the first 5m, ditto. I'm not an advocate for retrobolting generally; up to him.
kieranl
2/05/2008
12:35:44 PM
I'm not averse to a bolt at about 5m but as the climb has been out there for 20 years would like a bit of feedback from others who have done the climb before saying yay or nay.
JDB
2/05/2008
1:48:03 PM
Appears to be a fair bit of cyber-waffle going on here !

GTAT is meant to be a 'designer' pitch to get to the "superb" second pitch of Kama Sutra.

From what I gather....... the second pitch (of K.S) has poor old carrot bolts and a whole pile of lichen.

So what is all the hype about ?
kieranl
2/05/2008
2:05:38 PM
On 2/05/2008 JDB wrote:
>So what is all the hype about ?
The second pitch is actually really good. The quality of the old bolts has nothing to do with the quality of the climbing. As for the lichen, it just doesn't get a lot of traffic.
GTAT is just an easier approach to it than the first pitch of KS that was put up on-sight. Nothing designer about it. All pretty dramatic though.
Wendy
2/05/2008
3:03:27 PM
I had heard that there wasn't a lot of gear in GTAT - in fact I think the exacts words were no gear, all the gear my friend found was in either Quo Vadis or Scorpion, but he may have been exagarating. But I have also had this impression for a while now that you must have gone through a bold stage Kieran and have been scared of trying any of your routes which said "good protection"! GTAT being one culprit and Calabrese another ...

I recently did the 1st pitch of KS and finished up Scorpion - at the moment, it's a much more attractive line. The 2 bolts I saw were mank and it does seem to be suffering from lack of traffic. No surprises there. I did encounter the forementioned bush and it was rather annoying. Still it could be avoided by going up Scorpion for a few moves at traversing across to the belay on KS. You could also get to KS p2 by just going up Scorpion. No lack of gear there. Is the independant climbing on GTAT good? That is, worth rebolting to make a quality independant climb or should we just bound up Scorpion to acess KS p2 if we are concerned about the lack of gear?

Wendy
kieranl
2/05/2008
3:30:24 PM
You fell for Calabrese? Blame the "Select" guide authors not me. I'm not sure how they decided that it had adequate protection. For the record, it was climbed on sight and it rained heavily while I was on the runout section.
I'm not the person to ask whether GTAT is worthwhile.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
2/05/2008
8:36:10 PM
kieranl wrote;
>The name, from Robert Graves' book title, comes from having the abseil gear we had placed removed from the top while we were on the climb.

... then later wrote;
>For the record, it was climbed on sight and it rained heavily while I was on the runout section.

Is the fact that it rained why the abseil gear was removed? (Someone above packing up and getting off so as to not get wet??).
kieranl
2/05/2008
9:51:56 PM
On 2/05/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>Is the fact that it rained why the abseil gear was removed? (Someone above
>packing up and getting off so as to not get wet??).
>
The rain was on the first ascent of Calabrese.
The gear that we used to abseil down Quo Vadis was removed by one of the other teams on the bluffs that evening. I approached everyone who had been on the bluffs later that night in camp and all denied having taken it. It wasn't so much the value of the gear as that noone would admit to having it.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
3/05/2008
6:36:27 PM
That is sad news.
james
4/05/2008
12:30:27 AM
I remember GTAT being worthwhile. the gear was figgly but I remember it being *adequate*, but it was years ago that I was on it. The climbing on the 1st pitch of GTAT is ok but the 2nd pitch of Karma Sutra is the business - really exposed, not too hard, &the lichen would be gone with a bit of traffic. anyway I liked it, but I probably biased...that upper part of the Bluffs is probably my favourite wall at Araps just because of the position. love the exposure.
gfdonc
20/09/2010
10:27:52 PM
(bump) anyone want to make further comments?
I may be tempted to get up there for some maintenance in the spring.

Doug
21/09/2010
5:57:04 PM
GtaT is a route I have always thought sounded great, but have been reluctant to get on because of it being such an unknown quantity. The description in the select guide is very seductive, but up until now I'd never heard directly from anyone who has actually climbing it. Although it has the same grade as Scarecrow (which I have done and loved), the description for that climb at least suggests that you're going to get gear ("thin appealing crack"), while the description for GtaT doesn't quite instil the same degree of confidence.
The altered description makes a lot of sense, Simey. However, a couple of good solid new bolts - and perhaps a brushing down - might be just the tonic to give this bit of rock the attention it deserves. I certainly concur with the notion that this is the best position at the Piles.
gfdonc
9/11/2010
12:19:44 PM
On 2/05/2008 kieranl wrote:
>I'm not averse to a bolt at about 5m but as the climb has been out there
>for 20 years would like a bit of feedback from others who have done the
>climb before saying yay or nay.

(Bump again).
Looks like I may get rained off sometime on Saturday or Sunday so the chances of me being up there for maintenance are improving. Assuming I can get on top that is.

Replacing the top 2 droopy carrots (of KSp2) with stainless is a given, and some brushing if I feel inspired, but do I get the OK to add a bolt to GTAT while I'm there? The link-up would then be a recommended outing (and should get more traffic).

If yes - I'll take a look and if I can find reasonable gear (doubt it tho') will leave it alone.
If no - won't rap down that far (unless I do some pruning).

- Steve

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There are 28 messages in this topic.

 

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