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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Eastern	Ben Cairn	(General)	(General)	[ Ben Cairn Guide \| Images ]

Author

ben cairn

2-Feb-2007
2:10:23 PM

Maybe try stiff nylon brushes and leave the wire brushes at home ... ben cairn's rock is pretty hard but wire brushes will still wear those edges down

And for the slabs a broom is probably the go!

andi nismo

2-Feb-2007
2:19:54 PM

Yeah, I don't know what made me write 'wire' brush, I actually use one of those scrubbing brushes with nylon 'teeth'. They seem to last longer too, the teeth don't get all twisted and bent.

drdeviousii

2-Feb-2007
2:21:24 PM

Wholesale brushing is not pretty so lets try and keeeeep some of the natural vegetation on these rocks. It is not only climbers that visit Ben Cairn. *Respect* the nature.

andi nismo

2-Feb-2007
2:35:37 PM

Yeah well said, I agree with you. No obscene big patches of scrubbed rock. Anyway, by leaving the odd foot/hand hold covered will help train the gym coddled kiddies.

gfdonc

2-Feb-2007
3:39:34 PM

On 2/02/2007 dalai wrote:
>I think you need to do a bit more research Andi.
>
>Gfdonc was one of the first people who uncovered alot of this cliff during
>it's initial development! I personally think he has done his time hanging
>on a rope there already!

Yes, actually. I spent many, many hours covered in mossy crap from brushing my way down several routes on that crag. We used to wear wire brushes out completely.

I claim one "first descent" - twas I that started at the top and cleaned the entire length of Fiction well prior to the first ascent, hoping to find some more holds (but the rest is history). It was carpeted in moss when I started.

Amusingly, I'd prenamed the route "Double Fantasy" after the two cracks at the bottom, the unlikely nature, and the recent demise of John Lennon (and the name of his last album). I thought it was a good name, but never mind. "Fiction" was somehow relevant.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

2-Feb-2007
7:30:09 PM

Trad masters have learnt the art of climbing on lichen /moss/mank/etc.

Gotta treat the sport clippers with kid-gloves eh?

Someone once said carrying a toothbrush was good for cleaning holds.
I tried it on a new aid climb.
I had more fun climbing it in its natural state, though I must admit it was a dirty experience.
I don't carry a toothbrush anymore.

Imo trad = climbing a climb on its own terms*.
Long live trad.

(*Maybe that is where I get the urge to maintain the 'bold' ethic from?).

duglash

4-Feb-2007
8:30:57 PM

One of the coolest things I have ever seen was Edwardo whip out the toothbrush and brush a crux hold
before launching into the redpoint.. top style.

4-Feb-2007
9:15:12 PM

On 2/02/2007 drdeviousii wrote:
>Wholesale brushing is not pretty so lets try and keeeeep some of the natural
>vegetation on these rocks. It is not only climbers that visit Ben Cairn.
>*Respect* the nature.
On 2/02/2007 andi nismo wrote:
>Yeah well said, I agree with you. No obscene big patches of scrubbed rock.

err ... the crag wouldn't exist without wholesale brushing and obscene big patches of scrubbed rock. Eg this bolt is on a starred 19:


IdratherbeclimbingM9

4-Feb-2007
9:33:09 PM

>err ...
?
You are right.
The scrubbed patch (and bolt) are obscene, and the picture proves it.

Why must every bit of rock be climbed?; ... esp when such good lichen/moss growth as this adorns it.

This opinion of mine is not just because some would regard me as a fossil trad climber with a bent for natural flora, though to a certain extent this is true.

I have recently had my eyes considerably opened further to the magic of lichens and mosses through interacting with Parks Vic and other Authorities re the same at Mt Pilot.
Some of the unique habitats that these comprise are truly amazing, eg intermittent very shallow rock pools that form after rain can contain species that only live in that particular pool and cope with summer heat / winter cold in extremely harsh conditions.
Certain orchids also only grow in a strip (approaching topouts of climbs) where the soil is at optimum depth/nutrition for them. These are sufficiently rare that you can normally only count their numbers on one hand! If the soil is too thin they die and if it is too thick (>2cm) they are out-competed by other species!

Some in our climbing ranks need to speak up for these marvels of nature.
:)

dalai

5-Feb-2007
9:49:06 AM

On 4/02/2007 M9iswhereitsat wrote:
>Why must every bit of rock be climbed?; ... esp when such good lichen/moss
>growth as this adorns it.

Said by someone who lives near Mt Buffalo with acres of clean granite to climb! Down Melbourne way we are not as blessed and can't be so selective...

kieranl

5-Feb-2007
12:49:18 PM

On 2/02/2007 alrob wrote:
>has 'fiction' ever had a 2nd ascent?
Almost certainly. I think Carrigan repeated it but won't swear to it.The crux is short albeit very thin. Chunder and me worked it out on top-rope one day and Chunder tried the red-point but didn't get it. If we could get that close in one brief session it can't be that hard. Very nice climbing overall but a pity about the little chipped toenick on the crux.
Rentadoddle seemed much harder, more sustained and a very different style - I don't remember much about it because I didn't get anywhere on it.

andi nismo

5-Feb-2007
1:02:06 PM

On 2/02/2007 M9iswhereitsat wrote:
>Trad masters have learnt the art of climbing on lichen /moss/mank/etc.
>
>Gotta treat the sport clippers with kid-gloves eh?
>
>Someone once said carrying a toothbrush was good for cleaning holds.
>I tried it on a new aid climb.
>I had more fun climbing it in its natural state, though I must admit it
>was a dirty experience.
>I don't carry a toothbrush anymore.
>
>Imo trad = climbing a climb on its own terms*.
>Long live trad.
>
>(*Maybe that is where I get the urge to maintain the 'bold' ethic from?).
>

Are these comments offered up as part of a discussion on ethics and nature, or are they merely an opportunity to stroke ones ego?

andi nismo

5-Feb-2007
1:07:57 PM

On 4/02/2007 WM wrote:

>err ... the crag wouldn't exist without wholesale brushing and obscene
>big patches of scrubbed rock. Eg this bolt is on a starred 19:
>

Err, no s..t! What's your point?


nmonteith

5-Feb-2007
1:31:40 PM

On 5/02/2007 andi nismo wrote:
>Err, no s..t! What's your point?

I think the point is that the place is a national park and doesn't need ALL of its lichen removed. On new
routes in the Gramps/Araps and even most of Buffalo you don't need to scrub a thick layer of moss off
anything. It's equivalent to chopping a tree down to do a first ascent.

andi nismo

5-Feb-2007
1:52:09 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with that 'point', but when did I ever claim I was going to sterelize the entire crag. My only intention was to go up there and clean a couple of existing routes on a crag which I rarely climb at anyway! As usual the thread was hijacked by bullsh.t comments from reactionaries who haven't bothered to check earlier comments in the threads. I thought it was a decent thing to do if I took time out to give a very little something back. I'm still going to go up and do it for those that might appreciate it. All you smartarse knockers probably have a pretty good idea of what you can go and do!

Ok then, let's lynch Robin Miller and all those other eco terroists who have destroyed Arapiles. Those 'appalling' routes like Auto De Fe were once new routes Neil, and as for chopping trees to do a first ascent, speak to some of the 'new wave' climbers who did first ascents at Araps in the 80's. Some of Natimuks most accomplished climbers, some of whom are now staunch environmentalists are guilty of just that.


nmonteith

5-Feb-2007
2:34:49 PM

chill andi. no one was attacking your plan to clean up a few of the trade routes. there was just a mention
that the more obscure routes should left as wonderful green carpets rather than be unearthed for a new
generation.

I don't imagine Auto De Fae was covered in 3inch thick green moss from top to bottom.

andi nismo

5-Feb-2007
2:52:35 PM

OK, I chill! I get frustrated with the semantics!

As for 'auto' and the scrubbing issue, are we talking degrees, or just scrubbing of large areas of rock in general? AAAAAAARRRGG, semantics!


nmonteith

5-Feb-2007
3:21:54 PM

its just a dsicussion with a few different points of view. nothing to get that worried about. its always good
to hear the other side of any argument.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Feb-2007
9:09:44 PM

Semantics?
... viva la difference!

andi nismo wrote;
>Are these comments offered up as part of a discussion on ethics and nature, or are they merely an opportunity to stroke ones ego?

Interesting perception you have there andi, but I will reply anyway despite your fairly caustic earlier post about (sic)
>smartarse knockers

Ethics and nature mate (said stoking beard); as imo there is not much ego involved in a climbing ability that max’s out at Gd 21 considering the length of time I have been in the game!
nm summed up where I am coming from with;
>its just a dsicussion with a few different points of view. nothing to get that worried about. >its always good to hear the other side of any argument.

andi nismo wrote earlier on this thread;
>It's just that if I have to check up the status of every person I'm going to reply to, then I won't be getting much replying done. >I accept that my comments were a little misplaced but they represent a truth.

My comments represent truth also.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander!
What would be better though is a good outcome for some mossy climbs.

a n wrote;
>There are far too many goons getting into the outdoors with the attitude that someone else will look after the fine details. >From where I stand, it seems a majority of those types have infiltrated outdoor activities in the last ten or so years

I am trying to get a handle on where you are coming from, so based on your comments I will assume that you also consider me in this group.
If the fine details of climbing involve wholesale cleaning of routes then I happen to disagree with you; (and also dalai on this topic, based on his reply).

a n wrote;
>I don't climb at the 'Ben' alll that often but as I live only ten minutes away from there I think I will go up next weekend with the intention of giving some routes a clean. >Anyone else keen on bringing their goggles and a wire brush is more than welcome to join me!

I won’t be joining you but I won’t be stopping you either. Instead I will be hoping ... as nm succinctly wrote;
>the more obscure routes should left as wonderful green carpets rather than be unearthed for a new generation

It is OK to disagree.

dalai wrote;
>Said by someone who lives near Mt Buffalo with acres of clean granite to climb! >Down Melbourne way we are not as blessed and can't be so selective...

You probably boulder more than I get out climbing these days cobber; besides you would probably reject the mank* that I manage to find to climb on at Buffalo. If you are interested I can point you towards many dirty routes up there ... though having a penchant for history will help you appreciate them!
*They may be dirty but I don't clean them. Instead I try to climb with minimal impact amongst it. I consider it an integral part of the experience often finding it can often add a grade or more (especially if wet!), and take pleasure knowing it is still a similar place for others who may visit in the future.

mikl law

6-Feb-2007
8:46:25 AM

Fiction had a few repeats, the chipped toehold appeared a year or two after the FA, I repeated it after that, but couldn't do it using the chipepd toehold (wrong spot for me). I don't kow if rent-a-doddle ever had a repeat, it was ertainly the hardest thing I climbed in the 80's, but new footwear may have eased it slightly (put up in Canyons)

On 5/02/2007 kieranl wrote:
>On 2/02/2007 alrob wrote:
>>has 'fiction' ever had a 2nd ascent?
>Almost certainly. I think Carrigan repeated it but won't swear to it.The
>crux is short albeit very thin. Chunder and me worked it out on top-rope
>one day and Chunder tried the red-point but didn't get it. If we could
>get that close in one brief session it can't be that hard. Very nice climbing
>overall but a pity about the little chipped toenick on the crux.
>Rentadoddle seemed much harder, more sustained and a very different style
>- I don't remember much about it because I didn't get anywhere on it.

There are 48 messages in this topic.