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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

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Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Buffalo Gorge North Side Wilkinson's Lookout Environs [ Gorge Guide ] 

Cam hooks and Ozy

7:22:29 PM
On 23/09/2016 Timfreddo wrote:
>All in all a good experience,

Thanks for the feedback.
I echo PI's sentiment of "Good work on having a crack in sub-optimal conditions."

>I found the whole aiding thing a bit too artificial on Ozy (compared to
>things I've aided around the blue mountains, there's a lot more fixed carrots
>and pins). Thought it a bit strange that people used to be able to bash
>knife blades in the crack, but now it's not acceptable, but the damage
>has already been done. Pretty hard getting gear into some of the pin scars,
>cam hooks came in very useful.
>Feels like it's much more insecure than it may have been when pins were
>the norm)
>What are people's thoughts on the fixed gear? I found it hard to trust
>the 6mm bash in carrots that seem the norm for a fixed bolt, how long til
>the grade of the route goes up from the bolts getting old and unreliable...?
>I've always stuggled with the fact that on the first ascent those bolts
>would've been bomber, but one might get in trouble for replacing them with
>updated bomber bolts to the point where someone might even chop the now
>bolts to preserve the heritage... Doesn't make sense to me...
Aiding Ozy is too artificial?
Clean-aid is way more satisfying an experience than thugging your way up on pitons, or as Messner (echoing Chouinard?) once said "Murdering the impossible"!

Are you saying that there are more fixed carrots and pitons on Ozy than what you have done in the Blueys? If so have a crack at Dogface!!

Re pin scars. They start out as knife-blades but end up progressing through the sizes over time by people wanting ultra-security, until even bongs become rattly ...
Any damage to the rock should be unacceptable by today's standards, especially where clean-aid will get you up something without doing the damage, eg hand placed bird-beaks, etc.

Did you notice that the pin scars low on the route start out pretty well spaced (top-steps in etts), but by the time you get to the upper part of the second pitch they degenerate into half-ett spacing where people have been too lazy to use clean aid and didn't take bigger gear?

Bird-beaks etc are not necessarily more insecure. In fact I'd argue they are equally secure as a well placed knife-blade when placed well, but to mentally feel secure on them requires more experience...
At the same time I'd also argue that clean-aid (hand placed bird-beaks etc), adds at least a grade to what may have originally been a hammered ascent.

Re getting gear into pin scars; PI has already addressed that point, however I'd add that #3 RP's also cover most of those placements, and even more so if you have offset models of that size.

Re fixed gear; I differentiate between that and carrots.
Personally I find fixed gear detracts from a route, as I'd sooner face the challenges as they present rather than clip someone else's lazy cleaning.

Re carrots in deteriorated state; from the look of some of them, I doubt they were bomber when first placed. More likely they were the minimum required of a bolt-ladder to get to the next 'natural-aid' climbing.
I would be in favour of replacing bolt for bolt, as stainless carrots in the original holes cleaned up, rather than having an old carrot snap and not having enough stub left to use, nor a hole to bat-hook!
Given that Geoff Gledhill is still around to ask, I'd be surprised if he was to object to such action by someone committed to the task and who has the necessary experience to do a good job of it...

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