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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 91
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Arapiles Pilot Error Cliffs (General) Pilor Error Wall [ Arapiles Guide | Arapiles Images ] 

Author
Pilot Error Bolt
potex
12-Nov-2015
1:26:46 PM
I was on Pilot Error at Arapiles last week and the bolt out on the roof is definitely dodgy and in need of replacing. As many would know its a fixed hanger in the roof with the shaft of the bolt pointing to the ground in the same direction as the force of the pull. It has worked its way out maybe 8-10mm and the hanger is jingling loose. If the bolt fails then someone is looking at a ground fall for sure.

I was thinking of replacing the bolt so have a few questions first.

What is the preferred hardware to replace it with these days?

Is it best to pull the bolt, fill the hole with epoxy mixed with rock dust and then place a new glued in bolt?

cheers
-Ben

Sliamese
12-Nov-2015
3:33:51 PM
Sounds like your describing a sleeve type anchor. Remove the whole bolt assembly and reuse the hole for a glue-in will give the best result I think. Dont put another hanger in as thats not a long term solution.
One Day Hero
12-Nov-2015
3:50:24 PM
Don't replace bolts at araps unless you know what you're doing.........doesn't really sound like you know what you're doing.
widewetandslippery
12-Nov-2015
4:41:19 PM
I'm with ODH. if you have to ask dont do it. Your intentions are sound but its a bit of real estate that doesnt need stuffing up any more than victorians generally do.
Potex
12-Nov-2015
5:10:29 PM
I've been a tradie for 20 years and put in thousands of dynabolts in my time but never bolted a climbing route. With that said I will take your advice and leave it for someone more experienced.. So could someone please replace the bolt before someone gets killed?

potex
12-Nov-2015
5:51:59 PM
Actually.

Let me come from another angle.

I'm a very experienced worker with tools, point me in the right direction and the way you want the job done and I can help you guys out in making our climbing safer for everyone.

Do I need to send in a CV?? :-)

miguel75
12-Nov-2015
5:57:39 PM
On 12/11/2015 potex wrote:
>Actually.
>
>Let me come from another angle.
>
>I'm a very experienced worker with tools, point me in the right direction
>and the way you want the job done and I can help you guys out in making
>our climbing safer for everyone.
>
>Do I need to send in a CV?? :-)

Nope. You can bolt without a license but you will need to apply for the Dangerouser Cliffs Australia membership team (aka Team Alpha Super Awesome Cool Dynamite Wolf Squadron)... All CV's are to be sent to ODH for his perusal.

Jacques Shurmer
12-Nov-2015
6:03:57 PM
-> Remove Bolt
-> Drill hole out to 1/2"
-> Everyone add a $75 Climb-Tech 1/2" Removable bolt to their trad racks.

E. Wells
12-Nov-2015
6:11:41 PM
Available at Climbinganchors.com
mikllaw
12-Nov-2015
6:50:30 PM
Does it need a bolt at the grade (if the rest of the route was 26, probably not. As a popular 20, my memory is yes)

Has it come out or has the nut loosened?
If the nut has loosened it's probably ok for another 10 years, if it's coming out look up the methods for bolt-spinning to cut a groove in the wedge and pull the unit out, overdrill and glue in something decent.

No matter what you do 51% will complain
potex
12-Nov-2015
9:02:00 PM
Hey Mike,

Yeah it definitely needs a bolt.

The shaft and sleeve have pulled out from the hole and the bracket its flapping around loose on the end of it.
kieranl
12-Nov-2015
9:56:55 PM
Should be straightforward to remove if the sleeve is already working it's way out. Definitely wants a glue-in for that spot.
Maybe TheGoodDr knows someone who could replace it.
martym
12-Nov-2015
10:38:41 PM
On 12/11/2015 mikllaw wrote:
>Does it need a bolt at the grade (if the rest of the route was 26, probably
>not. As a popular 20, my memory is yes)
From memory the bolt is the only protection from a nut in a sketchy flake, 3m of roof or so and jugs on the face above, after which it's a staircase. Access from the top is easy - you could preplace a long sling over the lip perhaps, but not everyone is going to do that.
It's a one move wonder climb really, a poor man's kachoong.
Replace the bolt for all us paupers.
mikllaw
13-Nov-2015
6:43:04 AM
There's a small chance you can remove the sleeve with needle nosed visegrips. Some purists cut the stud off and then use a core drill around the whole shebang.

There are a few videos on various techniques for removing the old bolt such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLl59N-HIds

A last option is cutting the old stud and punching it in, then patching, and putting another bolt in (10 mm Ubolt or ring)
Wendy
13-Nov-2015
8:32:53 AM
Rather than bagging the guy out for asking what's best to be done, I think it's bloody great that he offered to do it. Most people like to just complain it needs to be done and expect some mysterious other to do it.

I agree the bolt is crap. It shouldn't have been rebolted with an expansion in the first place. I have never placed a glue in in my life and replacing a single glue in is a bit annoying as you have to have a whole tube and gun for it, which are rather costly and I also don't have them, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to pass it on to some else as well.

Having just spent ages removing a shitty expansion the other week and picked a few brains for tips on the way, I can suggest how to get it out:

When you are really lucky, they just undo and pull out. Or will wiggle out with leverage and brute force. If you can get the needle nose vise grips in, you can try holding the sleeve whilst loosening it. Next option is to pull out on the bolt with your weight or some sort of lever whilst trying to undo it. Seeing your bolt is already hanging out, you can grab an angle grinder and chop it off, then tap the bolt in and pull off the sleeve then fish the bolt out (tweezers are helpful).

Hopefully at the end off all of that you have a reusable hole, but willl still need to drill a second hole for a u or to recess a p. However, given where the bolt is, the easiest way to put a new bolt in is probably hanging off the old bolt, then removing it and patching the hole. As a midget who is constantly cursing bolt locations, have a think about whether 5 foot tall people will be able to clip your new location, but also that it is in a good spot for expected falls (it's pretty easy to come close to the ground or wall there regardless).

I'll see if I can sweet talk someone with the right kit into showing both of us how to place a glue in. Otherwise it will probably stay as another chockstone conversation that doesn't go anywhere.

rodw
13-Nov-2015
8:54:59 AM
On 13/11/2015 Wendy wrote:
>I agree the bolt is crap. It shouldn't have been rebolted with an expansion
>in the first place. I have never placed a glue in in my life and replacing
>a single glue in is a bit annoying as you have to have a whole tube and
>gun for it, which are rather costly and I also don't have them, so I'm
>afraid I'm going to have to pass it on to some else as well.

Its only the nozzle thats lost..the rest of the tube is reusable...to be fair anyone who bolts stuff probably has several tubes lying around with enough left in it for one more bolt....I do but I'm in Sydney so count me out.

FatBoy
13-Nov-2015
9:11:53 AM
On 12/11/2015 martym wrote:
>On 12/11/2015 mikllaw wrote:
>>Does it need a bolt at the grade (if the rest of the route was 26, probably
>>not. As a popular 20, my memory is yes)
>From memory the bolt is the only protection from a nut in a sketchy flake,
>3m of roof or so and jugs on the face above, after which it's a staircase.
>Access from the top is easy - you could preplace a long sling over the
>lip perhaps, but not everyone is going to do that.
>It's a one move wonder climb really, a poor man's kachoong.
>Replace the bolt for all us paupers.

Did it on Tuesday by coincidence. It IS protected quite well without the bolt - cam's in the back of the roof and you will actually swing past the arete. And when on the big jug two moves later, any number of small cams fit quite well in the jug off to the left.

That said, I just clipped the bolt anyway ...

Wendy
13-Nov-2015
9:26:17 AM
On 13/11/2015 FatBoy wrote:

>Did it on Tuesday by coincidence. It IS protected quite well without
>the bolt - cam's in the back of the roof and you will actually swing past
>the arete. And when on the big jug two moves later, any number of small
>cams fit quite well in the jug off to the left.


I'd say I'd love to see you test that theory but I don't want to have to clean up the mess. The ledge is about 2m below you. Once past the first move out the roof, you'd be hardpressed to miss it falling onto the gear at the back of the route.

FatBoy
13-Nov-2015
9:52:42 AM
On 13/11/2015 Wendy wrote:
>On 13/11/2015 FatBoy wrote:
>
>>Did it on Tuesday by coincidence. It IS protected quite well without
>>the bolt - cam's in the back of the roof and you will actually swing
>past
>>the arete. And when on the big jug two moves later, any number of small
>>cams fit quite well in the jug off to the left.
>
>
>I'd say I'd love to see you test that theory but I don't want to have
>to clean up the mess. The ledge is about 2m below you. Once past the first
>move out the roof, you'd be hardpressed to miss it falling onto the gear
>at the back of the route.

The arete is undercut there. And I didn't qualify it, but you'd leave the cams on the extreme left of the R hand face rather than in the campground face because yes, if you placed them around the corner you would definitely go George of the Jungle style into the camp-facing wall.

FatBoy
13-Nov-2015
9:56:18 AM
And I'd also further qualify by saying that I am pro-bolt in this case. If you are going to fall on that route - and plenty of people do - by definition it's because you wouldn't have the arms and so placing the small cams that would protect the 3rd and 4th moves over the roof would be impossible.

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There are 91 messages in this topic.

 

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