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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

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VIC Arapiles (General) (General) (General) [ Arapiles Guide | Arapiles Images ] 

New Arapiles Select Guide
1:45:03 PM
On 29/03/2006 Crossdresser wrote:
>...and you probably would be looking back on this memorable experience
>in a different light had that 'wee wire' pulled - and you'd decked into
>the Judgement Day traverse line.

I ended up below the judgment day traverse line as it was. Still, all's well that ends well and getting into the odd spot of bother is an integral part of (trad) climbing.
3:05:33 PM
Congrats to you and Glenn for being willing to put in the massive amount of work required for a second edition. Are you both going senile? If you are really going mad, then I'd prefer another edition of the Grampians Select Guide. This task would be much tougher, given the development that has been occuring since your first two editions. It would require a big rewrite and edit. But the bonus would be going to all of these new areas and climbing some great routes. Do you climb in your footy boots nowadays?

RE the Araps Guide:
If there are going to be boulder problems included, then I support using the standard V Grading system - for problems graded V1 and above. This caters for a range of potential boulderers..... including OS visitors.
For easier problems (all V0?), a two or three tier grade on these would help the many climbers who cannot boulder V1. Maybe, as has been suggested, E, M or H if you want 3 tiers. E and M if you want two levels. I prefer only the two levels as potential boulderers below V1 would then have an indication of which problems to attempt.
This would leave us with the open ended system: E, M, V1, V2 ......


3:32:12 PM
On 29/03/2006 simey wrote:
>However the more I think about it, the more I tend to think that the majority
>of starred routes at Arapiles are pulse-raisers. They almost all come with
>their own inherent problems and dangers. >The reality is that every climb at Arapiles is potentially dangerous.
>Maybe I will leave out the heart flutter symbol and just let people read
>the description and check out the route for themselves.
I guess it depends on whether the description has that information in it. Some people want to know if the pro is tricky, some not (and some route descriptions provide that info, others not). A symbol like that, especially on a grade 10, can remind people that it's not a doddle, and those bloodstains all over Pedro are there for a reason. (I use that example because I understand the bloke is recovered).

Guess it's all part of the tension between giving people, especially tourists, due warning, and taking the excitement and fun out of an onsight trad ascent of a new (for them) route. Maybe giving people a symbol means you don't need to be as prescriptive in the definition while still covering your sesne of responsibility. I like having an idea of the undertaking I'm going on, some like the achievement of an unknown risk. I dunno, I'll buy the guide regardless, hope it goes well.

4:02:55 PM
Interesting to hear people talking of Pedro as a challenging route, It was my first natural lead: at the time I asked my mentor "should I put some more gear in?" his reply was: "are you going to fall off?" Aaah, good times, brought back by a good discussion.

Being a bit of a visual (visceral?) person I find infographics appealing, and particularly useful for scanning. Simey yours and Glen's current guides certainly raised the bar in Australia for photo topos and the Gramps guide is the *only* current guide I own even though the place is 13hrs away. I'm sure whatever you do will be full of character which is great!

4:43:40 PM
Being a fan of lists, I think the guide would benefit from two lists at the back: safe ticks for the grade and the serious list.

A list of a couple of routes of each grade from say 16 up that have especially good protection would be a great aid for people looking to break into the next grade and not get too many nasty surprises on the way. Not an exhaustive list, but just the editor's recommendation for a good route at the grade that a neophyte can push themselves on safely.

And just as important is a serious list. Tjuringa, Bad Cheques, Sufficiently Alarming etc. A list of unashamadly bold or outright dangerous routes of whatever grade. I think there will be a swing towards boldness in the coming years and talking up some of the classic frighteners at the Mount would be a great way to kick it off. there are local climbers who would relish the challenge, but it would also be great for visiting poms who are pushing the E grades back home and don't wan't to have to wade through the whole guide to find the E7 equivalents at Araps.

just my 2 cents.
5:02:32 PM
Thats a bloody good idea timbo,

it might also help to preserve the routes on the list from becoming sport routes (as seems to be the fashion these days).
5:23:02 PM
I agree good idea Tim
lists are great. and any more old school stories of epics dramas triumphs battles...... true or not, great reading all the same.
pretty much what its like now but with some extra tid bits for those of us that can recite the current guide.

6:09:32 PM
I agree with Tim and Lee, lists are really good for just scanning through and picking something out saves flipping back and forth in the guide itself. I find the index really good in the currant guide. stories of epics, humour and other odities are always fun to read.

2:07:40 PM
Alongside the much clamoured for V grades,

An alphabetical index at the back, alongside the current grade sorted list.
2:25:24 PM
if you want to add another list, a table with the first say 50 routes done at the mt, along with date grade and page ref.
2:44:01 PM
then, a graded list of all the lists.
5:13:53 PM
Hey Chockstoners, I have a confession to make.
I still use my Carrigan 1983? guide. It seems to have all the routes in it I'd ever want to climb, and more. It hasn't fallen apart. It's easy to carry.
I've looked at the Shepherd and Select works and they're nice for a browse. What reason, though, would I have to shell out some hard-earned on one of these? And which one?

5:44:50 PM
I agree with Tim about a list of well protected climbs but why only start at grade 16. Start low with Tip toe ridge, for those of us more vertically challenged!

6:09:42 PM
i just remembered another thing. include an alphabetical list as well as the grade index, so it makes it easy to find a climb that u know the name of but don't know the grade or area. thats just something a found on my last trip.
it would also help first timers at the mount who have only ever heard of great climbs called Muldoon or Bard and don't know other details.
7:49:03 PM
>I still use my Carrigan 1983? guide. It seems to have all the routes
>in it I'd ever want to climb, and more.

Even though Steve has upgrading from his "whillans type" troll harness and maxxed out the visa on new fangled wire-gate biners, he still clings to those glorious "old school" days of the 1980's..... ;)

8:13:27 PM
Forget the symbols and lists. They're no fun to read while flaked out in the tent watching dinner boil and perusing the guidebook, dreaming about what to climb tomorrow.

1:41:43 PM
On 29/03/2006 tmarsh wrote:
>Being a fan of lists, I think the guide would benefit from two lists at
>the back: safe ticks for the grade and the serious list.

great idea, and only takes a page or two, beacuse the actual details of the climb are allready elsewhere

alphabetical index..think this is a bit of a waste of space, *if* the climbs are in alphabetical order in each grade index .. then it doesn't take long to scan a few of the grade indexes to find the climb your looking for. I suspect the current araps slected guide has the climbs in front-to-back order as appearing in the guide .. not sure this is really needed as there's apage ref for the climb anyway.

Eduardo Slabofvic
3:53:50 PM

Can you print the guide on absorbent paper, so that when you’ve done all the routes on one page you can tear it out to wipe your bum with?

Eduardo Slabofvic
4:01:30 PM
...or to take the list idea a bit further, how about themes. Like do all the Morehead '81 routes in a year, or all the climbs with "dog" in the name, or all routes that are named after a character the Odyssey.

7:59:42 AM
On 31/03/2006 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>...or to take the list idea a bit further, how about themes. Like do all
>the Morehead '81 routes in a year, or all the climbs with "dog" in the
>name, or all routes that are named after a character the Odyssey.

Perhaps produce an 'accessory' CD (additional price) with an Excel spreadsheet containing the main details, sans description, to allow people to sort the information into a list based on any single column -- say grade, name, FA, area or whatever. So long as the page numbers had their own column then cross-reference back to the hard copy guide would be simplified.

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