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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 4 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 78
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Southwest You Yangs (General) (General) [ You Yangs Guide | Images ] 

Author
You Yangs - Flinders Peak Bolting?

ajfclark
Online Now
6/08/2010
4:00:51 PM
On 6/08/2010 sportdad wrote:
>There a bit like Americans... the world would be a better place with a whole lot less of them!

They're*

Do you feel the same way about grammar Nazis? ;-)

cruze
6/08/2010
4:08:15 PM
On 6/08/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>Look, from what Cruze said, it sounds like adding 1 bolt to some 2 bolt
>routes will make them a lot better.......I don't know why you'd bother
>to discuss that sort of reno, just do it. However, if the climbing is shitty
>with 2 bolts it'll still be shitty with 3 bolts (and I reckon the Youies
>all looked shitty).....might be better to pull the bolts and forget it
>ever existed. Unmolested rock is more valuable than a bolted up pile of
>shit which attracts no ascents!

You seem to be ignoring the fact that bolts in Victoria must be approved by at least three generations of past climbers before being voted on in a referendum requiring the support of not only a majority of climbers but also a majority of demographic minority groups. The placement of the bolts must then occur on the first full moon after the shortest day of the year and be blessed by the sacrifice of three differently coloured goats. Even then the bolts would probably be chopped/padlocked/debated on chockstone.

In keeping with gfdonc's original thoughts, the Flinders slabs really are a pretty nice spot. They are not visible except to climbers disappearing down off the walking track, the rock faces the cityscape in the distance, and the routes are actually quite varied and interesting for such a small area.
gfdonc
6/08/2010
4:58:28 PM
Good, that's settled then. Who has some goats?
devlin66
6/08/2010
8:57:16 PM
What colour do you want?
dalai
6/08/2010
10:24:06 PM
Plenty of goats still in the park I thought, I believe velcro gloves are required?

The area is out of bounds till December now anyway, so the climbs can remain unmolested for another 3 months...
Olbert
6/08/2010
10:58:56 PM
I must admit that this is not my original opinion but I do completely agree. There is really two types of run out run out slab routes, there is the ground up onsight and there is the rap inspected preplaced bolts. These are two very different cases. The ground up onsighted route is a historical monument and should probably be left as is. The second case is where some dude rapped down bad a look and decided where he needed the bolts for his ability. If he wasn't such a stingy asshole it would be a good route - in which case retrobolt it into a good route
dalai
6/08/2010
11:07:22 PM
On 6/08/2010 Olbert wrote:
>If he wasn't such a stingy asshole it would be a good route -
>in which case retrobolt it into a good route

Nothing about being stingy - hand drilling in granite either on lead of on abseil is hard work! An hour or more hammering away with a hand drill per bolt makes you see sense and only place the bare minimum.
gfdonc
7/08/2010
12:24:59 PM
Question of Ethics was originally going to have 5 bolts, but (a) I thought that was too many on one piece of slab, and (b) I couldn't be stuffed hand-drilling that many holes anyway. After much hanging around on abseil and by positioning the first bolt higher I managed to get it down to 3.
dalai
7/08/2010
2:00:54 PM
On 7/08/2010 gfdonc wrote:
>After much hanging around on abseil and by positioning
>the first bolt higher I managed to get it down to 3.

Showing that some people have not felt the first bolt is within jumping distance...


IdratherbeclimbingM9
7/08/2010
7:41:56 PM
On 7/08/2010 dalai wrote:
>On 7/08/2010 gfdonc wrote:
>>After much hanging around on abseil and by positioning
>>the first bolt higher I managed to get it down to 3.
>
>Showing that some people have not felt the first bolt is within jumping
>distance...
>
Hmm.
How much cotton-wool-balling do the next generation need?
If I try something and I fall off in the first one or two moves, then I would have to be mentally prepared and a pretty determined joker, to want to push my limits to get to the first bolt to clip it.
If I decide to push on to that extent, then by default I have accepted the risk involved.

Olbert
7/08/2010
11:55:42 PM
On 6/08/2010 dalai wrote:
>On 6/08/2010 Olbert wrote:
>>If he wasn't such a stingy asshole it would be a good route -
>>in which case retrobolt it into a good route
>
>Nothing about being stingy - hand drilling in granite either on lead of
>on abseil is hard work! An hour or more hammering away with a hand drill
>per bolt makes you see sense and only place the bare minimum.
Irrespective of whether it was laziness or the difficulties with hand drilling in granite it's the same result. The route is not a historical monument, if there is someone willig to do it and the route needs it to turn it into something worth doing then definitely retro bolt
dalai
8/08/2010
10:58:35 PM
Can you please clarify what you mean by historical monument?
Olbert
9/08/2010
12:00:32 AM
On 8/08/2010 dalai wrote:
>Can you please clarify what you mean by historical monument?
Something that stands to signify what can be done. Something done in good style - ground up!

Something bolted on abseil and then rehersed isn't an historical monument. The person put up only the bolts they needed not what the route needed. If the route is some deathtrap that nobody gets on but would actually be a descent route with a retrobolt and there is somebody willing to do it - that is the route that should be retrobolted.

Edit: Basically the thesis of my arguement is this - you cannot expect a normal climber to do what the first ascentionist would not. A normal climber doesnt go and abseil inspect a route just so they can lead it (unless they are in the UK). If the route has the potential to be a good route but is not solely because of the number and placement of the bolts then it should be retrobolted.
dalai
9/08/2010
4:13:01 PM
On 9/08/2010 Olbert wrote:
>Something bolted on abseil and then rehersed isn't an historical monument.


Did you read the post from the FA? No rehearsal...


On 4/08/2010 armstp wrote:
>Pretty much all of those routes named at the start of this thread are mine.

And...

>Placing the bolts was such hard work we placed
>the absolute minimum we thought we would need to get up the routes.
>Due to some strange outmoded attitudes we had at the time we didn’t top
>rope the routes before leading them but sort of guessed where we thought
>the hard bits would be and placed the bolts there before leading the first
>ascents ‘on sight’.

bw
9/08/2010
4:47:56 PM
.... so it wasn't bolted on lead?
dalai
9/08/2010
4:52:03 PM
Nobody said it was bolted on lead...
olbert
11/08/2010
5:59:51 PM
On 9/08/2010 dalai wrote:
>On 9/08/2010 Olbert wrote:
>>Something bolted on abseil and then rehersed isn't an historical monument.
>
>
>Did you read the post from the FA? No rehearsal...
Nope
>
>
>On 4/08/2010 armstp wrote:
>>Pretty much all of those routes named at the start of this thread are
>mine.
>
>And...
>
>>Placing the bolts was such hard work we placed
>>the absolute minimum we thought we would need to get up the routes.
>
>>Due to some strange outmoded attitudes we had at the time we didn’t top
>>rope the routes before leading them but sort of guessed where we thought
>>the hard bits would be and placed the bolts there before leading the
>first
>>ascents ‘on sight’.
Nope again.

I was only giving my very eternally absolutely truly honest opinion on the general ethics of retrobolting. I must admit I didnt actually read the first couple of pages of posts. I should probably have posted the comments in a more appropriate thread.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
11/08/2010
6:15:52 PM
On 11/08/2010 olbert wrote:
> I should probably have posted the comments in a more appropriate thread.

With the prevalence of thread drift and hijack, this is as appropriate a thread as any!
Heh, heh, heh.

 Page 4 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 78
There are 78 messages in this topic.

 

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