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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
All NSW (General) (General) (General)  

Author
Way of all flesh permadraws
Linze
7/01/2010
9:42:17 AM
What is the general opinion on the existence of the permanent draws (attached by mallion) on the Way of all flesh???

Even though I personally like them being there, and know that the route is used by some as a training route/warm up for the nearby harder stuff, I am not convinced that this warrants a different situation to most of the other routes in the bluies... and are these draws depriving someone of the onsite??

These questions were sparked when I recently went up this route and noticed that the slings are starting to feel a little brittle...

wallwombat
7/01/2010
10:24:14 AM
On 7/01/2010 Linze wrote:
> the route is used by some as a training route/warm up for the nearby harder stuff,

I'm actually getting a bit bored wth it.

I think I might start warming up on Alpha Leather instead.
gfdonc
7/01/2010
10:47:35 AM
There was some testing done by Black Diamond on some old and weathered draws left on a cave/climb. I bookmarked the page but they've rearranged their site, so I couldn't find it for you in 20 seconds or less. Try google?

ajfclark
7/01/2010
10:57:38 AM
This one http://web3.bdel.com/scene/beta/qc_kp_archive.php#081606 or this one http://web3.bdel.com/scene/beta/qc_kp_archive.php#010906 (and there's more to the bottom of the page).
widewetandslippery
7/01/2010
11:05:16 AM
Are "permadraws" like "depends" but clean themselves?
cogsy
7/01/2010
3:03:12 PM
personally I luv 'em! If the slings are getting dodgy I'm happy to chip in for replacement.
There's permadraws at boronia and wave wall as well, they just get changed regularly (ie when someone finally ticks their proj and the next person puts some up).

SteveC
7/01/2010
6:10:44 PM
The perma draws thing seems pretty popular in the states even to the extent of fixed steel chain draws
on some routes.
Dont forget to look at the wear on the biners that protect the crux
In the big cave in Maple Canyon, Utah, i found one biner that was so worn from ropes running through it
that it really had a razor sharp edge, just begging to deglove a rope.
So i pulled out my swiss army knife and shaved the sharp edge down to a friendlier angle. There was still
at least 30 percent of the material left, strong enough for a couple of years more.
One Day Hero
8/01/2010
12:00:04 AM
f---, we all need big shiney U's to feel safe, I guess fixed draws on everything will be even safer.........always amazed me how some people will decide to get on a route or not based on the draws being on or off......pussys!!
spicelab
8/01/2010
2:08:21 PM
On 7/01/2010 SteveC wrote:
>The perma draws thing seems pretty popular in the states even to the extent
>of fixed steel chain draws
>on some routes.
>Dont forget to look at the wear on the biners that protect the crux
>In the big cave in Maple Canyon, Utah, i found one biner that was so worn
>from ropes running through it
>that it really had a razor sharp edge, just begging to deglove a rope.
>
Ditto a number of crags at Red River Gorge. I was there in October and there are still loads of fixed draws remaining from the "Petzl Roc Trip" a couple of years ago, plus many more that predate those. The trifecta of fixed hangers gouging more than half way through the rock biner, slings baking in the sun and the rope biner copping it from the hordes of traffic did not do much for my confidence.

Or at least for my climbing partner Will, who was actually competent enough to climb on the harder routes.

Fanatastic place apart from that...

Sonic
8/01/2010
9:09:10 PM
Some of the draws that were getting worn on The Way were replaced not too long ago. They are attached by Mallion because they were walk-a-bout-draws for a while!

And I think the fixed draws are warranted - Who would want to back-clean that sucker after the pumpfest it delivers!
maxdacat
Online Now
9/01/2010
10:01:54 PM
On 7/01/2010 Linze wrote:
> and are these draws depriving someone
>of the onsite??
>
how? sports onsighting "allows" for preplaced draws no?
asavage
11/01/2010
2:04:19 PM
On 8/01/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>f---, we all need big shiney U's to feel safe, I guess fixed draws on everything
>will be even safer.........always amazed me how some people will decide
>to get on a route or not based on the draws being on or off......pussys!!

Temper temper...I guess I'm a pussy, cause I wont get on a problem unless someone has pre-placed the pads for me.
linze
11/01/2010
2:18:20 PM
On 9/01/2010 maxdacat wrote:
>On 7/01/2010 Linze wrote:
>> and are these draws depriving someone
>>of the onsite??
>>
>how? sports onsighting "allows" for preplaced draws no?

not if I ruled the world....

i have never claimed an onsight if the draws are up.... given it is harder to do the route putting the gear up..... guess it depends on where you are and which ethics police are around.... but if you are going to use the terms to delineate between the styles of the ascent there should probably different terms for gear up/down.... i would claim it as a flash...

otherwise, I guess my initial point, obviously not made that clearly, was that who decides when a route should be equipped this way when it is not the prevailing style? And, do they have the right to do so.....? Yeah it probably does suit this route in particular (bc it sucks to clean) and reflects the requirements of those that climb it most... but despite this I donít see how an individual or small group can really claim to have the decision making authority to change the style of one route because it suits them....... (even though I am one of the Ďthemí that it suits)....

hopefully that fans the flames a little more..... i was hoping to start a (friendly) fight :)
dalai
11/01/2010
2:43:37 PM
Having climbed at some perma-drawed crags in the states (Jailhouse rock in particular) I'm all for the convenience of setting these up here...

Andrew_M
11/01/2010
5:36:05 PM
This permadraws thing is a great idea. Can it be extended to trad routes? I'd love to see some "permagear" installed on all those bold routes that I've never had the cojones to lead.

Of course it would probably start with the testpiece routes, Ozy and Passport to Insanity etc - you wouldn't need all those fiddly 0 rps and bothersome big cams and big bros because they'd already be in place. Hopefully it would then filter down to stuff that I could actually climb.

I'd contribute to a "regearing" fund if someone wants to do the work. Of course there would need to be some engineering testing into safety, and work on adhesives to make sure the gear didn't go walkabout, but Mikl could probably cover that pretty easily.
hotgemini
11/01/2010
6:24:47 PM
It's really not so much the gear that I see as the problem so much as the clipping, perhaps we could expand the 'perma-rope' setup implemented on the bard each easter to more routes, working from most popular to the more obscure?

-Adam.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
16/01/2010
7:55:21 PM
permadraws = booty.

Duang Daunk
22/07/2014
3:20:45 PM
On 11/01/2010 asavage wrote:
>On 8/01/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>>f---, we all need big shiney U's to feel safe, I guess fixed draws on
>everything
>>will be even safer.........always amazed me how some people will decide
>>to get on a route or not based on the draws being on or off......pussys!!
>
>Temper temper...I guess I'm a pussy, cause I wont get on a problem unless
>someone has pre-placed the pads for me.

Well there you go.
You have got what you deserve. My, my, what a difference four years make.

There are 18 messages in this topic.

 

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