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DMM: Viper Size L (2013 model as shown) Padded Adjustable Harness, 5 Gear Loops Fits: Waist 87-104cm Legs: 55-70cm   $89.00
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Chockstone Forum - For Sale

Buy and Sell Used Climbing Gear Please do not post retail SPAM.

 Page 3 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 66
Author
insane gear prices!

climbingfool
14/05/2010
3:07:15 PM
>My objection to your comments is solely that you are justifying and defending
>a broken retail system. You won't fix it by continuing to practice it
>in its current form.

Broken retail system?

Right, so wholesalers, that distribute to retailers should just sell products at a price that would cover their costs, and waive profits so prices remain reasonable for the consumer? Or should the manufacturer sell their goods at cost so retailers can make more of a profit? Or should the whole supply chain just cover their costs?

Maybe the freighting companies would do the same thing? Ship goods all over the world and only charge their customers what it actually costs?








I

ajfclark
14/05/2010
3:36:49 PM
I think what he's getting at is that the way consumers can do business no longer fits with the assumptions of the established retail model. It used to be a complete pain to deal with an overseas retailer/manufacturer and it no longer is. So the local shops are in direct competition with those overseas. This is a marked difference to the retail model that seems to be currently in use.

That said, I don't think I should be able to buy a set of cams and get them in country cheaper than a company can get 10 sets of cams in country and pass them on. It shouldn't be cheaper and easier for me to make a one off purchase from an overseas company.

Something is rotten somewhere in the 'broken retail system'.
egosan
14/05/2010
3:39:16 PM
On 14/05/2010 climbingfool wrote:
>>My objection to your comments is solely that you are justifying and defending
>>a broken retail system. You won't fix it by continuing to practice it
>>in its current form.
>
>Broken retail system?
>
>Right, so wholesalers, that distribute to retailers should just sell products
>at a price that would cover their costs, and waive profits so prices remain
>reasonable for the consumer? Or should the manufacturer sell their goods
>at cost so retailers can make more of a profit? Or should the whole supply
>chain just cover their costs?
>
>Maybe the freighting companies would do the same thing? Ship goods all
>over the world and only charge their customers what it actually costs?
>
>

Omega Pacific Link Cam shipping cost 10-20 bucks USPS.

US 96
AUS 206

The Emperor has no cloths.

That is the scoreboard. Shipping, duty, wholesaler markup, blah blah blah, None of that changes the scoreboard. Aussie retailers need to change. I don't have your answers. You might though. Maybe they go under.

climbingfool
14/05/2010
3:58:08 PM
When i first moved here from Canada, the prices for gear offended me and i assumed it was due to an aggressive markup at the retail level.

Then i started to import, distribute and manufacture climbing gear to sell wholesale and retail.
(this decision was not to see if i could bring prices down, i simply needed a job) Now i know why the final price to consumers is so high. The cost of doing anything here is a lot more expensive than where I am from, by at least 50% or more, and to keep a business, especially a small one running, you have to make a certain level of profit, or you are just providing a service for free. We tried the north american model for wholesale and retail and it does not work here.

For part of my business, due to costs i had to remove the wholesalers out of the equation to keep the final price to consumers at the same level as what they are currently in Australia for similar products. In theory, this would mean that I have increased my profit by removing a link in the supply chain, and i did, but it is still not enough and I am pretty much losing my shirt.

The cost of living here is high. If the retail system is broken, then it is a symptom of something bigger being broken as well.


egosan
14/05/2010
4:11:42 PM
Kudos to you for making a go of it.

Aye, there may be larger issues at work here.

cruze
14/05/2010
4:24:35 PM
When I bought my steel concreter's shovel from Mitre10 for $8.95 two years ago I couldn't believe it. Many shovel fulls later it remains the best value for money item I have ever bought. Go China.

Not sure what this story has to do with anything (it is Friday I am allowed some liberties), just had to get it off my chest.

Miguel75
14/05/2010
4:53:38 PM
Climbingfool, retail isn't an easy game and I congratulate you for getting into it and giving it a crack. Please PM me your retail site/details as I'll gladly shop with you.

One question around shipping; do you find fees charged by shipping companies fluctuate with the changing Aussie dollar? (I wouldn't think so but thought I'd ask)

As egosan has said, it's so much cheaper to get gear OS, even with all the fluffing around. It won't always be like this. Until the Aussie peso flounders again all my large purchases will be with price in mind and that usually means getting them from OS.


climbingfool
14/05/2010
6:09:37 PM
Their Fuel Surcharges go up and down with petrol prices but base rates stay the same unless something drastic happens or is it time to renegotiate.
fiend
14/05/2010
6:24:43 PM
If you shop around a bit freight isn't too expensive. From near Glasgow I sent one big box containing:
B3 boots, ice axes, helmet, two man tent, crampons, goggles, ice screws, bulldogs and warthogs, 60lt rucksack, 30lt rucksack, two thermorests, two msr stoves, and other bits n pieces.
cost, 230, including insurance to the value of 2500. took four days from door to door.
Might sound like a bit but I'm sure I saved more than that just by buying my boots over there and not here.

Thanks Wendy for giving me a few shops to try.

Hugh: all of my Uk prices are from companies that also don't import direct. Black Diamond is sold through First Ascent, Metolius goes through Beyond Hope, and so on. I deliberately left DMM out of my stats as I believe they're the only company still making climbing hardware in UK and therefore not paying import, or middle man fees. (Wild country do have a factory in England but when I visited last year, was told almost nothing is actually made there.

I do think its important to buy from local stores and not online from OS, as many climbing shops are labours of love, founded by climbers, and that's awesome and should be encouraged. Perhaps some kind of syndicate, or partnership -without going down the franchising path - would lead to cheaper freight, and those savings could be passed on.


jezza
14/05/2010
8:04:39 PM
'Aussie retailers need to change.' - is it really the retailers that are the problem? AFAIK for every major climbing brand, there is but a single wholesaler. Sea to Summit is the sole wholesaler for BD, for example. At least that's my understanding. There are other wholesalers for other brands, but there is always one per brand. I doubt if there's more than a few importers in total.

This constitutes an oligopoly, or, more likely, a monopoly (because we don't readily substitute one brand for another as climbers - if you want a C4, that's what you'll get). This allows wholesalers to force retailers to accept higher margins, and those are passed onto the consumer.

There's other factors too. The federal minimum wage in the US is currently $7.25. In Washington (highest) it's a stratospheric $8.55. Australia - $14.31+20%=$17.17.

There's lots of whining on these threads, but what's a feasible solution? I don't know much about retail, but I don't understand why the rules aren't changed so retailers can buy direct. What services are the wholesalers providing, and at what cost? At the moment if a retailer purchased an _individual_ cam direct from a US _retailer_ and marked the price up 100%, the price for that cam would be roughly the same price (in Australia) as the same cams purchased from an Australian wholesaler.
hargs
14/05/2010
8:48:42 PM
There's something very wrong here, but the problem isn't just with retailers. Freight, duties, taxes, middlemen, vendor's regional pricing policies; all these things contribute to our situation. As buggered as it is, the system's busted arse lumbers on because enough of us keep buying stuff at ridiculous prices.

Capitalism is basically arbitrage: you get your hands on something in one place at one price and you offload in another place at a higher price. Why wouldn't you keep doing that for as long as you could? It stops only when you can no longer unload your stuff at high enough prices. That situation will never change because it's good to buy locally, or because it's nice to visit a shop where you can pick stuff up and try it on.

Pointing at local retailers and complaining about their prices is easy because they're the only part of the supply chain most of us recognise, the only part we ever meet face to face. But retailers aren't really the last link in the supply chain; we are. Until we buyers change our habits, there's no pressure on the rest of them to change theirs.

The obvious answer, at least for those of us pouring our lives down the intertubes, is direct distribution. Everyone buys direct from the vendor at a price they set to meet their corporate objectives, competition, and the market. Distribution sorts itself out. The price consumers pay varies according to the actual cost of freight which, as numerous posters have pointed out, isn't as much as you might think. That's the simplest, coldest, and most economic answer. And while it puts the clothes back on the emperor, it probably means there won't be many places left where I can try on a jacket.
Doro
14/05/2010
9:57:26 PM
I moved here from Berlin about 14 months ago. Relocating to the other side of the world is expensive, so I sold almost all my belongings (including my climbing gear - too heavy to ship) and only sent a couple of boxes over. The general cost of living and gear prices were a bit of a shock to the system, but then Berlin is one of the cheapest places to live in Europe.
I was stoked when I found out I had a lot more money to play with. My groce income over there was much higher than what I get here for exactly the same job, yet I take home 25% more every month over here. I know this doesn't answer the question and you guys probably don't want to hear it, but I think the AUS tax rate is a joke and you get a lot for your money here.

Perhaps the answer to the problem is a lack of local manufacturers. Why is this if there is a reasonable market for it?
I am also into mountain biking and it's the same problem. There is no local brand (Avanti are NZ if I am right, and don't produce the bikes I am into) and the choice of imports is both very limited and highly over-prized.

wallwombat
14/05/2010
10:26:47 PM
It's pretty sad when NZ totally eclipse us when it comes to local manufacturing. Icebreaker is huge worldwide. Then there's Macpac, Fairydown, TOTA, Chalky Digits, Cactus Climbing Equipment, Avanti bikes, Arne Packs, etc

We have Wilderness Equipment and One Planet and maybe a couple I have missed. Most of it is probably manufactured in China anyway (as Macpac probably is now).

Since Venus shut up shop we don't have one manufacturer of crash pads in the entire country. In NZ they have two.

boulderingbadger
15/05/2010
8:01:53 AM
Woops, sorry for posting the wrong link, was in a hurry...

The postage was $100 US, but email them (Jamie) have a chat, they will wipe off a big chunk of the crash pad price (they did for me and my mate at least, this was 2 months ago). We figured they must be looking for exposure in Australia, hence the massive discount... but yes, we got 2 x 4" crash pads shipped for a total of $480 US

http://www.asanaclimbing.com/

wallwombat
15/05/2010
10:28:49 AM
On 15/05/2010 DavidN wrote:
>WallWombat: Did you get an Organic pad? I went through the same process
>as you finding out shipping would cost $280, but the owner directed me
>to Big John who is currently shipping in a container's worth of the mats.
> Prices expected to be around the $400 mark for the mats (as opposed to
>$500 for the mat + shipping from the US).

Yeah. Josh at Organic told me the same thing and I have a $200 down payment on a Organic Full Pad with Big John. They are due in at the end of this month or beginning of next.
DSPIES
15/05/2010
11:17:34 AM
Who is 'big john'?

ajfclark
15/05/2010
11:18:24 AM
http://www.bigjohn.com.au/
Damo666
15/05/2010
2:05:13 PM
On 14/05/2010 wallwombat wrote:
>It's pretty sad when NZ totally eclipse us when it comes to local manufacturing.
>Icebreaker is huge worldwide. Then there's Macpac, Fairydown ....

All made in China. Cactus is good, but extremely expensive up front (maybe good value based on durability).

Gear retail costs in NZ are ridiculous - NZ$900 for a pair of leather mountaineering boots? Pfft! No wonder mountaineering is in decline there - young people can't afford to get into it.

Varying exchange rates make a huge difference. Now, and recently, it has been good for buying from overseas. Very recently, it has even become very good for buying from the UK and EU, not just the US. What was really damning for the Aust outdoor retail industry was when the rates were not so good and it was STILL lots cheaper to buy from US retailers, at a bad forex rate, plus shipping, plus get the latest model.

UK postage is *almost* always cheaper than US postage. Many US retailers aim to make a profit on their shipping, which is considered legitimate business practice. But not all do this, so shop around. And not all UK sites take off the 17% VAT like they should. Ask them about it if it does not come off just before payment, as it makes a big difference.

From 2002 - 2008 I spent over $15,000 each year on mountaineering gear (team of 4, not all for me!) and as each year went by I bought more and more online. If the price difference was close, I often wanted to spend it in AUS shops, but I got sick of smug gits trying to tell me the 3-year old gear or garment on their shelf was 'the latest model'. Or 'we can order it in for you' but it will take 6 months. Or not knowing about ice-axe umbilicals. Or not knowing what eVent was. So what is this 'service' I'm paying for?

D


wallwombat
15/05/2010
2:20:57 PM
Cactus, TOTA , Arne and Chalkydigits are all made in NZ.

The larger companies (like all larger manufacturers nowadays) such as Macpac, Fairydown and Icebreaker are made in China.

My point wasn't that it's cheap to get gear in NZ. My point was at least they actually MAKE some gear in NZ.

What is the population of NZ compared to Australia?

We make fcuk all here in Australia.

wallwombat
15/05/2010
2:30:23 PM
On 15/05/2010 Damo666 wrote:

>UK postage is *almost* always cheaper than US postage. Many US retailers
>aim to make a profit on their shipping, which is considered legitimate
>business practice. But not all do this, so shop around. And not all UK
>sites take off the 17% VAT like they should. Ask them about it if it does
>not come off just before payment, as it makes a big difference.


This is something that I only just realised. A US online gear shop wanted to charge me $48 to ship a 150 gram windshirt. I checked out a UK online retailer and the postage was a quarter of that. The US mob sent me a bullshit email justifying the postage and I sent one back saying they were bullshitting me and they would never get a cent off me. I had recently had a considerably heavier package sent from the US by another retailer for much less so I knew they were simply trying to make a profit on postage.

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There are 66 messages in this topic.

 

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