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OT - Bit of a curly one - bringing herbs into Oz


ajfclark

10-Mar-2011
9:50:33 AM

If you want a straight answer, email customs. information@customs.gov.au I think.

widewetandslippery

10-Mar-2011
9:50:39 AM

Yes why are herbal supplements being allowed in at all?

Herbal supplements are used by hypochondriacs, Australia has enough of a mental health problem without letting more mentally ill in.


nmonteith

10-Mar-2011
9:52:44 AM

Are the supplements actually illegal in Australia? If they are not I don't really see the problem providing you declare them and they look commercially manufactured and packaged. Obviously a water bottle full of some random green goop won't pass the test.


Cesca

10-Mar-2011
9:53:15 AM

Thanks ajfclark. Will do. Will be really inneresting to see what they say.


Cesca

10-Mar-2011
9:57:35 AM

Hey Neil, well, a guy in Aussie who is on the same holistic regime as me (or trying to be) wasn't able to obtain supplements over your way that I've had zero issues getting hold of here. I assume he really did his homework on the issue as he wants to get well. That's how I first became aware of the rules in Australia.

That customs video is quite funny. Customs officers from Australia, nation of tokers, presenting a straight face to the camera and (not really) trying to appear alarmed because Jean Luc has some 'ash in eez arse...... ; )


nmonteith

10-Mar-2011
10:09:41 AM

If they are illegal don't even think about it then.

Here is a well known example of even the famous getting stung...
http://www.tmz.com/2007/03/12/stallone-charged-with-importing-steroids-down-under/


Cesca

10-Mar-2011
10:27:21 AM

Just emailed AQIS : )

One Day Hero

10-Mar-2011
10:28:29 AM

On 10/03/2011 Cesca wrote:
> I assume he really did his homework
>on the issue as he wants to get well.

I assume that he must suck at homework if he really wants to get well and ended up consulting a naturopath!

By the way, how come I've never heard of Tim Minchin before? Holy shit, what a total farking legend!

I now have 2 heros, Fantini and Minchin

linze

10-Mar-2011
10:55:04 AM

maybe you could read the chapter on homeopathy on the way over.....

http://www.trickortreatment.com/challenge.html

linze

10-Mar-2011
11:05:02 AM

On 10/03/2011 linze wrote:
>maybe you could read the chapter on homeopathy on the way over.....
>
>http://www.trickortreatment.com/challenge.html

dont i feel like a fool! homeopathy is totally different to herbs.... cant believe i mistook a treatment that doesnt work for a treatment that doesnt work.... luckily the book also has a chapter about how herbal meds dont work.....


ambyeok

10-Mar-2011
11:53:22 AM

On 10/03/2011 linze wrote:
>luckily the book also has a chapter about how herbal meds
>dont work.....

That must be why the Chinese are such an unhealthy people and why theres hardly any of them left cause they all died over the last 4000 years taking herbal treatments that didnt work.

widewetandslippery

10-Mar-2011
11:59:30 AM

There is quantity and quality in life


brat

10-Mar-2011
12:03:38 PM

Probably placebos, bring 'em in!

PS IdratherbeclimbingM9 your mail box is full and can't recieve PMs!

linze

10-Mar-2011
12:27:06 PM

On 10/03/2011 ambyeok wrote:
>On 10/03/2011 linze wrote:
>>luckily the book also has a chapter about how herbal meds
>>dont work.....
>
>That must be why the Chinese are such an unhealthy people and why theres
>hardly any of them left cause they all died over the last 4000 years taking
>herbal treatments that didnt work.

yes yes yes,ok,ok i should have been more careful about using 'meds' (refer to the 'meds' vs 'alternative meds' above)....i agree, for e.g., that chinese herbal "medicines" are better than western ones for the treatment of cold symptoms

how about...."luckily the book also has a chapter about a bunch of very popular herbal REMEDIES that are frequeently presecribed by people presenting as health professionals despite fact that it seems as though they have shown no effect other than placebo, and which may actually have negative impacts upon health".....

which reminds me...i am late for my daily dose of bear bile and powered tiger penis, i am going to be weaker than usual at the gym

glenn

10-Mar-2011
12:43:49 PM

Hey widewetandslippery, I'm coming to Australia soon too! Can you do me a favour and let me know where you will be in the second half of April, and that way I can ensure I don't meet you and have my holiday spoiled. Thanks!

Just an observation here -- the fact that quite a few of the people posting have been so eager to ram their opinion down someone's throat when they weren't even being remotely asked for their opinion about that subject sure says something about those people.

To confuse homeopathy (the practice of diluting a substance to essentially a zero concentration to "potentialize" it, which has no scientific basis as science stands and would require the rewriting of chemistry to be true, and for which there is no study supporting its benefits, as far as I am aware) with naturopathy (the practice of supplying nutrients to the body, increasing exercise, reducing stress, and other techniques that can in many cases be "alternatives" to drugs and surgery to improve health) is a bit disturbing. Most of the concepts of naturopathy are mainstream, in that even your traditional GP will tell you to do some exercise, stop smoking, reduce the crazy hours you are working, sleep more, cut out caffeine, and eat better. The major difference between naturopathy and "conventional medicine" is that most naturopaths have a much better knowledge of nutrition and the effects of stress than other practitioners. Whereas a nutritionist or traditional GP may tell you that taking essential fatty acids is beneficial, a naturopath is more likely to tell you it is pointless unless you are also consuming protein at the same time, which is required to emulsify the fatty acids (I hope I have that right), and they will be able to give advice on the quantities and types to take. Whereas, a traditional GP considers the effects of diet on obesity and the cardiovascular system and little else, a naturopath has thorough knowledge of, for example, how nutrients (or lack of them) affect a wide range of health issues, including mental disorders, and what the adverse affects of caffeine and other stimulants (such as those in chocolate) have on the nervous systems of many people.

Drug research, and I say this as a scientist, is semi-scientific at best, and there is little understanding of the effects of drugs on the body, brain and nervous system. It is largely a trial-and-error experiment with the human body. Trial and error will certainly have successes from time to time, but to think that there is a thorough understanding of the mechanisms involved and the full spectrum of side effects of a certain drug (and every effect of a drug is really a side effect, including its marketable purpose) is sadly incorrect. Furthermore, whether a drug reaches the pharmacy as a "Western medicine" or a "supplement" (the latter usually having a long history of human consumption) has more to do with whether the intellectual property of the product can be owned by a drug company than anything else.

So to answer your question Wetty, herbal supplements are allowed in because of the substantial scientific basis for their effectiveness. Nutrition is, after all, a pretty logical concept.

widewetandslippery

10-Mar-2011
12:48:58 PM

I think its better you don't come to Australia if you don't like the natives.


skink

10-Mar-2011
12:51:09 PM

glenn

10-Mar-2011
1:01:52 PM

Stunning reply. So witty! How do you come up with gold like that?


Sabu

10-Mar-2011
1:05:07 PM

On 10/03/2011 glenn wrote:
>Drug research, and I say this as a scientist, is semi-scientific at best,
>and there is little understanding of the effects of drugs on the body,
>brain and nervous system. It is largely a trial-and-error experiment with
>the human body. Trial and error will certainly have successes from time
>to time, but to think that there is a thorough understanding of the mechanisms
>involved and the full spectrum of side effects of a certain drug (and every
>effect of a drug is really a side effect, including its marketable purpose)
>is sadly incorrect. Furthermore, whether a drug reaches the pharmacy as
>a "Western medicine" or a "supplement" (the latter usually having a long
>history of human consumption) has more to do with whether the intellectual
>property of the product can be owned by a drug company than anything else.

This is more of an opinion (and a cautious one at that) but I'm not sure I agree it's "semi scientific", rather there is still so much that we don't understand in comparison to what we do understand. Lets not underestimate what we do know about the brain and body, (which is far greater than any previous generation) and also the processes involved in getting a drug onto the market (eg research, ethics, clinical trials, significant results etc.).

Duncan

10-Mar-2011
1:17:34 PM

Under Australian rules, for a drug to get regulatory approval, you have to be able to identify the active component. A lot of traditional Chinese medicines are demonstrably efficacious, but either haven't had their active constituent identified, or have a number of active components that work together, making it very difficult to identify exactly what the active component(s) are.

Big pharma spends serious money on investigating many of these medicines. Maybe Chockstoners know something they don't, or maybe some of you are talking out your arses.

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